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Testimony Of USMC Vet Nelson Delgado On Oswald's Marksmanship

This is a supplement to the recent article discussions on Lee Harvey Oswald's Marine Corps riflemanship —

(scroll down for detailed references)  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429303.shtml
(also see discussion under this article)  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429314.shtml

Nelson Delgado was a U.S. Army Spec 4 — and formerly 1957-1960 USMC — on April 16, 1964 when he provided this testimony at the U.S. Courthouse in Foley Square, NYC to Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's [Warren] Commission.

The full, complete text transcript of his testimony is available at the source link.
 http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/delgado.htm

For brevity and staying on topic to the earlier PDX IMC discussions, only the testimony of Mr. Delgado specifically relating to Lee Harvey Oswald's Marine Corps service, marksmanship and firearms expertise are copied below.
 http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/delgado.htm

[USMC SERVICE- AND FIREARMS/MARKSMANSHIP-SPECIFIC TESTIMONY *ONLY* EXCERPTED BELOW]


Mr. LIEBELER - My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am a member of the legal staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy. Staff members have been authorized to take the testimony of witnesses by the Commission pursuant to authority granted to the Commission Executive Order. No. 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137.

Under the Commission's rules for the taking of testimony, each witness is entitled to 3 days' notice, before he is required to come in and give testimony. I don't think you had 3 days' notice.
Mr. DELGADO - No.

Mr. LIEBELER - But each witness can waive that notice requirement if he wishes, and I assume that you would be willing to waive that notice requirement since you are here; is that correct?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - We want to inquire of you this morning concerning the association that the Commission understands you had with Lee Harvey Oswald during the time that he was a member of the United States Marine Corps. The Commission has been advised that you also were a member of the United States Marine Corps and were stationed with Oswald in Santa Ana, Calif., for a period of time.

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Before we get into the details of that, would you state your full name for the record, please?

Mr. DELGADO - Nelson Delgado.

Mr. LIEBELER - You are now in the United States Army; is that correct?

Mr. DELGADO - That is correct.

Mr. LIEBELER - What is your rank?

Mr. DELGADO - Specialist 4.

Mr. LIEBELER - What is your serial number?

Mr. DELGADO - RA282 53 799.

Mr. LIEBELER - Where are you stationed?

Mr. DELGADO - I am stationed at Delta Battery, 4th Missile Battalion, 71st Artillery, in Hazlet, N.J.

Mr. LIEBELER - How long have you been in the Army?

Mr. DELGADO - I joined the Army on November 1, 1960.

Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned that your MOS, I believe it is called, your military occupation specialty, has an indication that you are qualified to speak Spanish or another language; is that correct?

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you take tests while you were in the Army to establish your proficiency in the Spanish language?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes, I took the language proficiency test, and also the OCS test, the regular test they give you when you first go into the service, and I passed them all. It's in my 201 files, my military records.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you pass the Spanish proficiency test?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes. In fact I was offered to be sent to Monterey language school.

Mr. LIEBELER - To continue your studies in connection with the Spanish language?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - You took the Spanish proficiency test when you came into the Army at Fort Ord; is that correct?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - [1957] Where did you join the Marine Corps?

Mr. DELGADO - Down at Whitehall Street, in New York City.

Mr. LIEBELER - What training did you receive? Where were you sent?

Mr. DELGADO - Well, when we left New York I was sent to Parris Island, S.C., for basic training. Upon completion of that, I
was sent to Camp Le Jeune, N.C., for intensive training. Then I received schooling in electronics school at Jacksonville Naval Air Station, Jacksonville, Fla.

Mr. LIEBELER - Can you remember when you were there at Jacksonville?

Mr. DELGADO - I was there in 19--the the beginning of 1957.

Mr. LIEBELER - What is the exact title of the school that you went to? Do you remember?

Mr. DELGADO - Electronics school is all I can remember. From there, upon graduation from there, I received my choice of training, which was aircraft control and warning, and I was sent to school at Biloxi Air Force Base. Miss., and there I went to aircraft control and warning school there, and it lasted about 7 weeks. Upon completion there and graduation, I received my orders for Marine Air Control Squadron 9, Santa Ana, Calif.

Mr. LIEBELER - Approximately when did you arrive at Santa Ana?

Mr. DELGADO - The beginning of 1958.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you make the acquaintance of Lee Harvey Oswald at any time prior to the time that you arrived at Santa Aria?

Mr. DELGADO - No.

Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't know Oswald while you were in school at Biloxi or Jacksonville?

Mr. DELGADO - No. He was past that already.

Mr. LIEBELER - Oswald had been to these schools?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you learn subsequently that Oswald had been in school in Jacksonville and Biloxi?

Mr. DELGADO - All of us in MOS 6741 knew that he had been there.

Mr. LIEBELER - For the benefit of the record, MOS stands for Military Occupation Specialty. Is that right?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And the MOS number that you have just referred to was what?

Mr. DELGADO - Airborne electronics operators is about the equivalent, I guess.

Mr. LIEBELER - Airborne electronics operator?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes; our job was the surveillance of aircraft in distress, control of intercepts and approaches, and mostly air surveillance and help of aircraft running into problems.

Mr. LIEBELER - How long were you stationed at Santa Ana?

Mr. DELGADO - From 1958, I would say, until November 2, 1959, when I got discharged.

Mr. LIEBELER - So you were at Santa Ann after you completed your training, throughout your entire Marine Corps career?

Mr. DELGADO - That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER - Until the time you were discharged?

Mr. DELGADO - That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have access to classified information of any sort in the course of your work at Santa Aria?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes; we all had access to information, classified information. I believe it was classified secret. We all had secret clearances. There was some information there as to different codes and challenges that we had to give to aircraft and challenges and so on.

Mr. LIEBELER - In other words, if I can understand correctly the nature of your work, you actually worked in a control room?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Observing radar screens?

Mr. DELGADO - That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER - And when the radar screen would pick up an aircraft, you would then challenge that aircraft?

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - And it would have to identify itself?

Mr. DELGADO - That's true.

Mr. LIEBELER - And the code or signals that you sent to the aircraft requesting it to identify itself were classified information?

Mr. DELGADO - That's right, along with the range capabilities of the radar sets and their blindspots and so forth and so on. You know, each site has blind-spots, and we know the degrees where our blindspots are and who covers us and that information. That's considered secret, what outfit covers us and things like that.

Mr. LIEBELER - And what was the latter----

Mr. DELGADO - What outfit covers us, that we can see. And as I say, the capabilities of the radars, as I said before.

Mr. LIEBELER - How far out they can reach?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And pick up an aircraft?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes; and how high----

Mr. LIEBELER - And how high----

Mr. DELGADO - And how low we can catch them and where we can't catch them.

Mr. LIEBELER - And I suppose all the men who worked, with the radar sets knew these things?

Mr. DELGADO - They all knew. What do they call it now--authentication charts, which is also a secret.

Mr. LIEBELER - What is the nature of these charts?

Mr. DELGADO - Authorization chart is, if we receive an order over the phone, over the headsets--authentication. Pardon me. That's the word. Let's say this order, we can question it. What it actually amounts to, he has to authenticate it for us. Now, he should have the same table or code in front of him that I have. He gives me a code. I would look it up in my authentication chart, decipher it, and I could tell whether or not this man has the same thing I am using. And this changes from hour to hour, see. There's no chance of it--and day to day, also.

Mr. LIEBELER - So that the information, the code itself would not be of any particular value to the enemy, since it is changed?

Mr. DELGADO - It's changed from day to day; no.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did there come a time when you were stationed at Santa Ana that you met Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes; in the beginning of 1959. He arrived at our outfit. I didn't take no particular notice of him at the time, but later on we had--we started talking, and we got to know each other quite well. This is all before Christmas, before I took my leave.

Mr. LIEBELER - This was in 1957 or 1958?

Mr. DELGADO - 1958. And we had basic interests. He liked Spanish, and he talked to me for a while in Spanish or tried to, and since nobody bothered, you know--I was kind of a loner, myself, you know. I didn't associate with too many people.

Mr. LIEBELER - How old were you at that time?

Mr. DELGADO - I was 17--18 years of age; 17 or 18.

Mr. LIEBELER - About the same age as Oswald?

Mr. DELGADO - Right. He was the same age as I was.
He had trouble in one of the huts, and he got transferred to mine.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know what trouble he had in the other hut?

Mr. DELGADO - Well, the way I understand it, he wouldn't hold his own. Came time for cleanup, and general cleanliness of the barracks, he didn't want to participate, and he would be griping all the time. So the sergeant that was in charge of that hut asked to have him put out, you know. So consequently, they put him into my hut.

Mr. LIEBELER - What were these huts? Were they quonset huts?

Mr. DELGADO - Quonset huts, right.

Mr. LIEBELER - And they served as barracks, right?

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - How many men----

Mr. DELGADO - Each quonset hut was divided in half. Now, in each half lived six men, two to a room. They were divided into two rooms with a bath room each side, each half of the quonset hut. I was living in one room. Oswald in the other room. And then we had our barracks, we had quite a bit of turnovers, because guys kept coming in and being transferred. Him and I seemed to be the only ones staying in there. And we would meet during working hours and talk. He was a complete believer that our way of government was not quite right, that--I don't know how to say it; it's been so long. He was for, not the Communist way of life, the Castro way of life, the way he was going to lead his people. He didn't think our Government had too much to offer.
He never said any subversive things or tried to take any classified information that I know of out or see anybody about it.
As I said to the men that interviewed me before, we went to the range at one time, and he didn't show no particular aspects of being a sharpshooter at all.

Mr. LIEBELER - He didn't seem to be particularly proficient with the rifle; is that correct?

Mr. DELGADO - That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER - What kind of rifle did you use?

Mr. DELGADO - He had an M1. We all had Mls.

Mr. LIEBELER - Carbine or rifle?

Mr. DELGADO - The M1 rifle.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have them in your quonset hut at all times?

Mr. DELGADO - No, sir; we had them in the armory, in the quonset hut designated as the armory. And we went there periodically to clean them up. And at the time in Santa Ana, he was with me at one time.

Mr. LIEBELER - Each man was assigned a particular rifle; is that correct?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have to use the rifles to stand inspection?

Mr. DELGADO - That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember whether or not Oswald kept his rifle in good shape, clean?

Mr. DELGADO - He kept it mediocre.. He always got gigged for his rifle.

Mr. LIEBELER - He did?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes; very seldom did he pass an inspection without getting gigged for one thing or another.

Mr. LIEBELER - With respect to his rifle?

Mr. DELGADO - With respect to his rifle. He didn't spend as much time as the rest of us did in the armory cleaning it up. He would, when he was told to. Otherwise, he wouldn't come out by himself to clean it. He was basically a man that complained quite frequently.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think he complained more than the other Marines?

Mr. DELGADO - Well, yes; a little bit more. Anything, anything that they told him to do, he found a way to argue it to a point where both him and the man giving him the order both got disgusted and mad at each other, and while the rest of us were working, he's arguing with the man in charge. For him there was always another way of doing things, an easier way for him to get something done.

Mr. LIEBELER - He didn't take too well to orders that were given to him?

Mr. DELGADO - No; he didn't.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever notice that he responded better if he were asked to do something instead of ordered to do something?

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - Would you say that?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes; well, that's what I worked with him. I never called him Lee or Harvey or Oswald. It was always Oz.

Mr. LIEBELER - Oz.

Mr. DELGADO - Ozzie. I would say, "Oz, how about taking care of the bathroom today?" Fine, he would do it. But as far as somebody from the outside saying, "All right, Oswald, I want you to take and police up that area"--"Why? Why do I have to do it? Why are you always telling me to do it?" Well, it was an order, he actually had to do it, but he didn't understand it like that.

Mr. LIEBELER - How long were you and Oswald stationed together at Santa Ana?

Mr. DELGADO - Basically there were 11 months, from January to the date of my discharge or the date that he took off. He got discharged before I did.

Mr. LIEBELER - August or September 1959, approximately?

Mr. DELGADO - 1959, right.

Mr. LIEBELER - And when were you discharged?

Mr. DELGADO - I was discharged November 2, 1960--1959.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did Oswald tell you that he had been overseas prior to the time he came to Santa Aria?

Mr. DELGADO - No; he didn't tell me has was overseas. I got that from the fellows who knew him overseas, Atsugi, Japan, and he was with the Marine Air Control Squadron, I believe it was, at Atsugi. There was a couple of guys stationed with him.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember their names?

Mr. DELGADO - No; I don't. I think one of them was Dijonovich. There was two of them stationed with him overseas.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever learn whether Oswald had been any place else overseas other than Atsugi?

Mr. DELGADO - No.

Mr. LIEBELER - You never heard that he was stationed in the Philippines for a while?

Mr. DELGADO - No; not that.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you know whether any of these other men that had been stationed overseas with Oswald had been to the Philippines?

Mr. DELGADO - No; if they went on a problem from there and got aboard a small carrier, they probably may have taken him, say, to Hawaii or the Philippines or Guam, something like that, for maneuvers, or Okinawa.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you had no knowledge of it at the time?

Mr. DELGADO - No.

Mr. LIEBELER - You were about to tell us, before I went into this question of how long you and Oswald were together, about the rifle practice that you engaged in. Would you tell us about that in as much detail as you can remember?

Mr. DELGADO - We went out to the field, to the rifle range, and before we set out we had set up a pot. High score would get this money; second highest, and so forth down to about the fifth man that was high.

Mr. LIEBELER - How many men were there?

Mr. DELGADO - Oh, in our company there was about roughly 80 men, 80 to 100 men, and I would say about 40 of us were in the pot. All low ranking EM's, though. By that I mean corporal or below. None of the sergeants were asked to join. Nine times out of ten they weren't firing, just watching you. They mostly watched to see who was the best firer on the line.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say there were about 40 men involved in this pot?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And you say that Oswald finished fifth from the highest?

Mr. DELGADO - No; he didn't even place there. He didn't get no money at all. He just barely got his score, which I think was about 170, I think it was, just barely sharpshooter.

Mr. LIEBELER - Sharpshooter is the minimum.

Mr. DELGADO - Minimum.

Mr. LIEBELER - Rank?

Mr. DELGADO - It's broken down into three categories: sharpshooters--no; pardon me, take that back; it's marksman is the lowest, sharpshooters, and experts. And then Oswald had a marksman's badge, which was just a plain, little thing here which stated "Marksman" on it.

Mr. LIEBELER - And that was the lowest one?

Mr. DELGADO - That was the lowest. Well, that was qualifying; then there was nothing, which meant you didn't qualify.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you fire with Oswald?

Mr. DELGADO - Right; I was in the same line. By that I mean we were on line together, the same time, but not firing at the same position, but at the same time, and I remember seeing his. It was a pretty big joke, because he got a lot of "Maggie's drawers," you know, a lot of misses, but he didn't give a darn.

Mr. LIEBELER - Missed the target completely?

Mr. DELGADO - He just qualified, that's it. He wasn't as enthusiastic as the rest of us. We all loved--liked, you know, going to the range.

Mr. LIEBELER - My recollection of how the rifle ranges worked is that the troops divided up into two different groups, one of which operates the targets.

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - And the other one fires?

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - When you said before that you were in the same line as Oswald, you meant that you fired at the same time that he did?

Mr. DELGADO - Right. And then all of us went to the pits, our particular lines; then we went to the pits, you know.

Mr. LIEBELER - Oswald worked the pits with you, the same time you did?

Mr. DELGADO - Right. And he was a couple of targets down. It was very comical to see, because he had the other guy pulling the target down, you know, and he will take and maybe gum it once in a while or run the disk up; but he had the other guy pulling it up and bringing it down, you know. He wasn't hardly going to exert himself.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember approximately how far away Oswald was in the line from you when you fired?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes; he was just one over from me.

Mr. LIEBELER - The next one, the very next one?

Mr. DELGADO - Not the next one, but the one over from that.

Mr. LIEBELER - There was one man between you and Oswald?

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you talk to him about his performance with the rifle at that time?

Mr. DELGADO - Not during that day, because I was mostly interested in my picking up the money, you know, and I wasn't worrying about what he was doing; in fact if he wasn't bringing it in, I didn't care, you know. I didn't want no competition.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you win any of the money?

Mr. DELGADO - Oh, yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - How many of the Marines won?

Mr. DELGADO - Just five of us.

Mr. LIEBELER - Just five?

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - And which one were you?

Mr. DELGADO - I was---I shot about 192. I came in about third.

Mr. LIEBELER - My recollection of the rifle range from the time I was in the is that sometimes the scores that were reported---

Mr. DELGADO - Were erroneous.

Mr. LIEBELER - Were erroneous. Has that been your experience also?

Mr. DELGADO - Oh, yes; if there is not close supervision. By this, that you have your buddy in back of you, he could be penciling in your score; if you get a 4, he will put a 5 in there. It doesn't work that way if you go to fire for record, like we did, because they have an NCO line and they got a pit NCO. Now they have a man at that target down there keeping score, and they also have a man back here keeping score, and when both those score cards are turned into the line officer, they both better correspond, and you have no way of communicating with the man down the pit.

Mr. LIEBELER - Was that the way it was handled when you fired this time?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - So there was very little, if any, chance that Oswald's score could have been fixed up; is that correct?

Mr. DELGADO - The only time you could fix up the score, when you go down for just straight firing, what they call battery column firing, and there is nobody to supervise, you pencil yourself. The Marines is pretty strict about that when you go for line firing. They want both scorecards to correspond with each other.

Mr. LIEBELER - Is this the only time that you fired----

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - With Oswald during the time that you were stationed at Santa Ana?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Now, the report that I have says that Oswald, like most marines, took an interest in the pool--they call it a pool instead of a pot, but that is the same thing?

Mr. DELGADO - Arm. Yes; pool.

Mr. LIEBELER - Oswald took an interest in the pool, which was started for the marine getting the highest score. It says, however, "Delgado said neither he nor Oswald came close to winning."

Mr. DELGADO - No, no; that is erroneous, because I won. He didn't win at all.

Mr. LIEBELER - You never told these FBI agents that you yourself did not come close to winning?

Mr. DELGADO - No; because I was--I was one of the highest ones there, I always had an expert badge on me.

Mr. LIEBELER - You were a good rifle shot?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes; just like I got one now [indicating].

Mr. LIEBELER - That is an expert?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes. This is a sharpshooter.

Mr. LIEBELER - You have both a sharpshooter and an expert badge; is that correct?

Mr. DELGADO - Right. One for the M1 rifle and the other for the carbine rather, this is the M14, the new one.

Mr. LIEBELER - The scores that you got on that practice would be reflected in your military records, would they not?

Mr. DELGADO - Right; in all our--well, I think they call them 201 files also in the Marines Corps--I can't remember what they are now, but they are all there, especially that one particular day, because that goes into your records. That's why they are so strict.

Mr. LIEBELER - And there is no chance in connection with that qualification firing that you can pencil in your score?

Mr. DELGADO - No.

Mr. LIEBELER - You did not tell the FBI that in your opinion Oswald had penciled in his qualifying score, did you? Or did you tell them that?

Mr. DELGADO - He may have done, you know; but if you got away with it you were more than lucky.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you talk to the FBI about that possibility?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes, I told him he may have, to qualify, because there was a lot of "Maggie's drawers" on his side. Now, he may have had some way of knowing who was pulling, that is another thing. You don't know who is out there in the pits, pulling it, see; and it could be a buddy of yours or somebody you know, and they will help you out. you know, get together, like before we all go and separate, you know, and I will say to my buddy, "Well, look, I want to try and get on line 22, you get on target 22 and I will try to be the first one on line"; so help each other like that. And when they go to the pits, they have their choice of getting on the lines, you know, so I will try to work it out with the fellow out there. But sometimes it doesn't work out that way. You just have to take your chances.

Mr. LIEBELER - You told us that in this particular rifle practice, or firing, that the scores were kept by NCOs.

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Was it a common practice for the privates to make deals like this with the noncommissioned officers in connection with a thing like this?

Mr. DELGADO - They are making a deal with the other guys pulling the targets. See, the guy back there is also keeping a score.
Now, your NCO, particularly your NCO, may want to push you or make you qualify, because he doesn't want to spend another day out there on the rifle range, see; so it's not all that strict. Like if I was line NCO and I had five men in my section, and four of them qualified, that means that some other day, maybe on my day off, I will have to come in with this other fellow, so I will help him along and push each other along.
You don't try to mess nobody up, but you can't take a man that is shooting poorly and give him a 190 score, see; you could just give him the bare minimum, 170 or 171, to make it look good.

Mr. LIEBELER - Just to qualify him?

Mr. DELGADO - Just to qualify him.

Mr. LIEBELER - So it is a possibility that that might have happened even in this?

Mr. DELGADO - Right.

Mr. LIEBELER - You said that you came in about third in this pool?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember who the marines were that won it and took second place?

Mr. DELGADO - No. These men were mostly transients. Like I said, I didn't have too many close friends in the Marine Corps. I went to school with quite a few of them that were stationed with us, but I never got real close to any of them.

Mr. LIEBELER - This statement in this FBI report indicates that you said that neither you nor Oswald came close to winning the pool and that just must be a mistake; is that correct?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes, Correct. I think in the first statement, too I said that I have won too, I believe, the first one he took. I won, but he didn't.

Mr. LIEBELER - The first report indicates that you said that Oswald was a poor shot and didn't do well, but it doesn't say anything about how you did. Do you remember discussing how you did with the FBI in the first interview that you had?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes, the first one was at home. We had more time to talk, and I was at ease there.

Mr. LIEBELER - And where would that have been?

Mr. DELGADO - The address?

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes.

Mr. DELGADO - 31 Oakwood Road---30 Oakwood Road, Leonardo, N.J.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say that this incident where you had to go out and qualify was some time in the spring of 1959?

Mr. DELGADO - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Can you remember any closer than that?

Mr. DELGADO - No. I just knew it was the spring because that is the time everyone goes out to fire. It's either going to be warm or it's going to be very cold when they go out there; it's never in between.

homepage: homepage: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/delgado.htm


"Maggie's Drawers" — Indicates _complete miss_ of the target 08.Mar.2015 17:14

_

As can be seen from the above testimony of a USMC veteran who served alongside Oswald and went through marksmanship qualification with him,

Lee Harvey Oswald was neither a proficient marksman or particularly concerned with field maintenance of small arms in the Marine Corps.


Mr. Delgado (see testimony above) openly laughed at Oswald's shooting prowess.

[QUOTE FROM DELGADO'S TESTIMONY:]
"He just qualified, that's it. He wasn't as enthusiastic as the rest of us. We all loved—liked, you know, going to the range."


He testified that during qualification range testing Oswald often got "Maggie's drawers" —

Meaning a red flag that is waved from the rifle pits to indicate a _complete miss_ of the target during qualification firing.

He also stated that Oswald did not seem to care if he missed or not.

Former Marines Recall Oswald A Poor Shot, Not Interested In Guns 08.Mar.2015 17:25

_

Oswald's Marine Background

Former Marines recall that Oswald was a poor shot.

Nelson Delgado said Oswald on the firing line was "a pretty big joke" because he got a lot of complete misses.

Delgado told researcher Mark Lane that Oswald just was not that interested in guns. He was always being penalized for not taking proper care of his rifle or cleaning it regularly.

Sherman Cooley, another Marine, said "If I had to pick one man in the entire United States to shoot me, I'd pick Oswald. I saw the man shoot. There's no way he could have ever learned to shoot well enough to do what they accused him of doing in Dallas."


Sworn testimony of Zachary Sklar and walter matthau 08.Mar.2015 17:32

i

Zach, wrote the screenplay for JFK, and Mr. Mathau spoke the lines Maggie's drawers. Both offer expert testimony here.

Its rather funny how when confronted that the shooter and the rifle were capable of making the shot and were consistent with range score (actually the JFK shot was below oswald's average as we have discussed) this site comes alive with the true believers who begin rubbing there beads, mumbling prayers for comfort because something they have believed as a holy sacrament conspiracies is now in question. Poof!

you know, a lot of misses, but he didn't give a darn. 08.Mar.2015 17:39

iio

I believe this is the answer. he didn't get a darn..

it would appear his motive changed and he did get a darn to bring his average back up huh..

"a holy sacrament conspiracies [sic] is now in question" 08.Mar.2015 17:45

Yes, Yes It Is

The official conspiracy theory aka Warren Commission / U.S. government explanation for what happened on 22 November 1963.

as evidenced by your pathetic responses which do not whatsoever address the facts and testimony at hand.

(and of course there is far, far more to be skeptical about that day's reported events, than merely LHO's marksmanship proficiency or type of rifle used)

the side mount scope 08.Mar.2015 17:47

i

that explains much.

I've always wondered why someone with Oswalds capability would want a telescopic site on a rifle and measly 82 meters. Seems it would get in the way, like using binoculars to read watch TV in the bedroom. Today I found out the scope was side mounted so the peep sites (those same ones he used to get a 76% hit rate in boot camp at 200, 300 and 500 meters) were usable at his 82 meter target 66% hit rate and not obstructed by the telescopic site.

makes perfect sense now.

Oswald could do the job 08.Mar.2015 17:50

i

its been proven. doesn't mean he did it, but it was not only possible, but probably and consistent with his boot camp score..

Open (Iron) Sights vs. Telescopic Sights On The Carcano 08.Mar.2015 17:50

Try To Keep Up.....



LOL 08.Mar.2015 17:53

i

I had no idea the Warren commission was the new testament added to the holy scriptures..

I saw nothing his his testimony that said Oswald couldn't hit a target 2 out 3 times at 82 meters (throwing distance)

Funny.

try to keep up. 08.Mar.2015 17:57

i

Yes, side mounted telescopic and still could use the peep sights.

see picture He could use either and their is no proof he used the telescopic sight.


 http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/lee-harvey-oswalds-carcano-rifle-shooting-it-today/


" peep sites [sic] (those same ones he used in boot camp) " 08.Mar.2015 17:57

WRONG.

Carcano carbine, and rifle, does not have "peep sites".

It doesn't even have peep _sights_ .

The Carcano, like many other of its early 20th / turn of century bolt action military issue contemporaries,

has a type of standard iron sights called open sights.

See the above/below-linked comment (other article thread) for more.


" still could use the peep sights. " 08.Mar.2015 18:01

Try To Keep Up.....

( "peep sights" for "i" = "Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14" )

the Carcano doesn't have "peep sights."

It has a specifically different and distinct type of iron sights called open sights —

See above.

Carcano carbine, and rifle, does not have "peep sites"???? 08.Mar.2015 18:02

i

really?


I see peep sights.. do you see peep sights? perhaps its a semantic term. to me peep sights and iron sites are the same thing. they don't involve the use of glass lenses that magnify the target.

 http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/lee-harvey-oswalds-carcano-rifle-shooting-it-today/

ifferent and distinct type of iron sights called open sights 08.Mar.2015 18:06

i

oh for fuck sake!

Its like stating a standard transmission and a 5 speed with a clutch are completely different. ugh..

point is, today I learned Oswald didn't to use the telescopic site because he access to the standard aiming old school three point apparatus on the rifle, and as your link to the other testimony stated that a telescopic sight would just get in the way at less than 100 meters.

better go back to the Cuban embassy in mexico 08.Mar.2015 18:09

i

because this dead horse won the race.

you need some other proof that will stand up to scrutiny.

" perhaps its a semantic term. " 08.Mar.2015 18:09

WRONG.

From "Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14",

to "peep sites".


How much of a firearms expert are you, again ?

Yeah. no.


Consult the other-thread comment link (with references)

Oh wait.

You're too busy trying to s**m the next posting on to Portland Indymedia.

never mind; I'll provide you with the specifics —


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_sights

**-----> OPEN SIGHTS
Open sights generally are used where the rear sight is at significant distance from the shooter's eye. They provide minimum occlusion of the shooter's view, but at the expense of precision. Open sights generally use either a square post or a bead on a post for a front sight. The post or bead is placed in the rear sight notch, and the target is placed above and centered on the aligned sights.

From the shooter's point of view, there should be a noticeable space between each side of the front sight and the edges of the notch; the spaces are called light bars, and the brightness of the light bars provides the shooter feedback as to the alignment of the post in the notch. Vertical alignment is done by lining up the top of the front post with the top of the rear sight, or by placing the bead just above the bottom of the V or U-notch. If the post is not centered in the V or U notch, the shot will not be accurate. If the post extends over the V or U-notch it will result in a high shot. If the post does not reach the top of the V or U-notch it will result in a low shot.

Patridge sights, named after inventor E. E. Patridge, a 19th-century American sportsman, consist of a square or rectangular post and a flat-bottomed square notch and are the most common form of open sights, being preferred for target shooting, as the majority of shooters find the vertical alignment is more precise than other open sights. V-notch and U-notch sights are a variant of the patridge which substitute a 'V' or 'U' shaped rear notch.[2]

Other common open sight types include the buckhorn, semi-buckhorn, and express. Buckhorn sights have extensions protruding from either side of the rear sight forming a large ring which almost meets directly above the 'V' of the notch. The semi-buckhorn is similar but has a wider gently curving notch with the more precise 'V' at its center and is standard on classic Winchester and Marlin lever-action rifles. Express sights are most often used on heavy caliber rifles intended for the hunting of dangerous big game, and are in the form of a wide and large 'V' with a heavy white contrast line marking its bottom and a big white or gold bead front sight. In cases where the range is close and speed far outweighs accuracy (e.g. the shooter is being charged by dangerous big-game), the front sight is used like a shotgun bead; the rear sight is ignored, and the bead is placed on the target. When more time is available, the bead is placed in the 'V' of the rear sight.[2]

Open sights have many advantages: they are very common, inexpensive to produce, uncomplicated to use, sturdy, lightweight, resistant to severe environmental conditions, and they do not require batteries. On the other hand, they are not as precise as other forms of sights, and are difficult or impossible to adjust. Open sights also take much more time to use—the buckhorn type is the slowest, patridge, 'U' and 'V' type notch sights are only a bit quicker; only the express sight is relatively fast. In addition, open sights tend to block out the lower portion of the shooter's field of view by nature, and because of the depth of field limitations of the human eye, do not work as well for shooters with less than perfect vision.[2]

**-----> APERTURE SIGHTS aka "peep sights"
Aperture sights, also known as peep sights, range from the ghost ring sight, whose thin ring blurs to near invisibility (hence ghost), to target aperture sights that use large disks or other occluders with pinhole-sized apertures. In general, the thicker the ring, the more precise the sight, and the thinner the ring, the faster the sight.[2]

The theory of operation behind the aperture sight is often stated that the human eye will automatically center the front sight when looking through the rear aperture, thus ensuring accuracy.[2] However, aperture sights are accurate even if the front sight is not centered in the rear aperture due to a phenomenon called parallax suppression.[3] This is because, when the aperture is smaller than the eye's pupil diameter, the aperture itself becomes the entrance pupil for the entire optical system of target, front sight post, rear aperture, and eye. As long as the aperture's diameter is completely contained within the eye's pupil diameter, the exact visual location of the front sight post within the rear aperture ring does not affect the accuracy, and accuracy only starts to degrade slightly due to parallax shift as the aperture's diameter begins to encroach on the outside of the eye's pupil diameter. An additional benefit to aperture sights is that smaller apertures provide greater depth of field, making the target less blurry when focusing on the front sight.

These sights are used on target rifles of several disciplines and on several military rifles such as the M1 Garand, the No. 4 series Enfields and the M16 series of weapons along with several others. Peep sights are very effective in poor lighting, and have found favor with a few hunters who hunt in heavy cover.

" I see peep sights.. " 08.Mar.2015 18:11

Try To Keep Up.....

Yeah, because that's what "you want to see" ?

deceived yourself?

Don't understand-comprehend the actual words, definitions or topic in the first place ?

APERTURE SIGHTS / peep sights 08.Mar.2015 18:28

i





Oswald rifle had both, telescopic and peep sights/aperture sights 08.Mar.2015 18:37

i

so he may not have used the telescopic sight for such a close target (82 meters).

" their [sic] is no proof he used the telescopic sight " 08.Mar.2015 18:39

Try To Keep Up.....

Does proof exist that "Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14" ?

It seems that the Open Sights  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429303.shtml#441673

comment over on the other thread has sparked your (emphasis on) little brain cells, and you want to spin-go with that.

As seen from ^that post, Bugliosi is the one who hypothetically broached that 'what if?' topic.

Problem is, it seems that the shooter would have a heck of a lot of trajectory compensation to do, particularly with a moving target like that limousine in Dealey Plaza.

(Anyway see the linked comment for full discussion, references)

But again, as emphasized at the end of that post: Iron sights or scope, the shooter from that window of TSBD building would have had to be well-practiced/drilled with their chosen weapon, and also if the scope was used the shooter would need to be proficient in keeping that device properly zeroed on the receiver mount, and in the field with range testing-zeroing, beforehand.
(even the iron sights of the Carcano required proper, beforehand zeroing)

Scopes/weapon optics and scope mounts of the early 1960s left a heck of a lot to be desired as compared with, say, today's 'user friendly' models available at Wal-Mart.

Oswald had no known expertise with weapon-mounted optics in the Marine Corps.

Further, his USMC compatriots testify that he was generally uninterested in firearms themselves, and with regards to marksmanship proficiency qualification(s) he could 'take or leave it' i.e. didn't give a ***t.
(Refer to original ^^^ above posted topic of this thread)

Other reports of Oswald's firearms usage, after the Marine Corps, refer to being a member of clubs that used shotguns. No specific evidence has ever been provided about Oswald's experience with precision rifles, or hunting rifles with telescopes mounted.

Merely purchasing (presuming it was even he who did that...) a Carcano with a scope from Klein's by mail makes him no 'expert', or even remotely competent, in actual field use and accurate deployment of such a weapon.


but hey "Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14" remember ?

"Google images seems to believe there [sic] are synonymous " 08.Mar.2015 18:41

Yeah Well

THEY'RE NOT.

"Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14", though.

M14 and M1 Garand are synonymous.

see above definions. And quit spamming up this thread.

" he may not have used the telescopic sight for such a close target " 08.Mar.2015 18:43

Try To Keep Up.....

Learn to read the English language.

You sp***ed 5 more posts on here when your answer was already ^^^ provided ?!?

Does proof exist that "Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14" ? 08.Mar.2015 18:46

i

yes, its in the warren commission right below that part where LBJ says he did it. ( I meant L-B-J)
LOL..

get real..

Learn to read the English language. 08.Mar.2015 18:47

i

sorry, I went to a public school infested with Unionized drones who were only worried about their state pensions and not about education.

synonymous 08.Mar.2015 18:49

i

in the corps they are synonymous, here on indymedia not so much.

" APERTURE SIGHTS / hence Oswald could do the job " 08.Mar.2015 18:51

Try To Keep Up.....

Except the Carcano doesn't have Aperture (aka 'peep') sights.

it has (the form of Iron sights named) open sights.

(Unless you don't think he used a Carcano.... or it was even him....)


Already discussed. (See other thread comment) Using the Carcano's open sights from the TSBD window, at that angle, distance, moving limousine target etc.

Would have required a great magnitude of on-the-fly (i.e. within a couple seconds, inside shooter's mind) trajectory compensation, range estimation and other factors that are virtually impossible. Except perhaps ? for a superbly trained and accomplished world-class rifle marksman. Which Oswald was provably not.


Here (you're lazy) it is again Mr. "Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14" —

[ VERBATIM QUOTED FROM THE OTHER THREAD POST ]
However, with the M91/38 open sights being factory set to be accurate at 200 meters, the final shot being well under 100 meters, and the M91/38 not being a very flat shooting rifle to begin with (up to ten inches high at 100 meters), the rifle would have been shooting quite high and would have made hitting JFK — in motion, in the limousine — extremely difficult. This would have been further exacerbated by the steep downward angle from the sixth floor of the TSBD to the limo which would have made the shot go even higher than what Oswald would have been aiming at.

So while an interesting hypothesis, and from the rate-of-fire and local use/handling-of-rifle point of view of the shooter himself perhaps an excellent option, it does seem less likely/doubtful that (with all those additional iron-sight calculations / compensations to be made) substitution of open sights for a telescopic sight would have prepared a shooter more effectively for this situation.


" in the corps they are synonymous " 08.Mar.2015 18:57

Try To Keep Up.....

Dirtbag like you?

" in the corps " ???!?

Lol. and what a disgrace. You would've been asskicked outta basic within 72 hours.


"Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14", though. Yeah. " in the corps they are synonymous ".


No, 'peep sights' and open sights are two (2) distinct and different types of (the general category) Iron sights.

if you had used 'iron sights' (the general term) that would apply to the Carcano. But its type of Iron are open sights, not peep sights.

Are you a peeping tom Pervert, is that your obsession with the word "peep" to begin with?


Your USMC drill instructor and range officers would have clearly instructed you on the distinction between open and peep sights, as there are different issued small arms with differing trajectory and zeroing requirements.


Otherwise you don't hit the target. (familiar?)

Except the Carcano doesn't have Aperture (aka 'peep') sights? 08.Mar.2015 19:11

i

it has (the form of Iron sights named) open sights. ?

Yes, it does. And the Oswald rifle had both.

Again, google, the Marine Corps, the rest of the world, it is synonymous. Here in the alternative reality media, not so much..

 https://www.google.com/search?q=rifle+iron+sights&biw=1447&bih=741&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=PAH9VNSWOoWLyAT7vYFI&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&dpr=0.95

You are really trying to pick gnat shit out of pepper here (another JFK quote, your welcome).

and what a disgrace 08.Mar.2015 19:14

i

Are you a peeping tom Pervert, is that your obsession with the word "peep" to begin with?

Funny, nice deflection attempt of the original point.

Oswald could easily have done the shooting job. Its been proven many times over.

Another conspiracy holy sacrament crumbles before our peep sights..

" Oswald could easily have done the shooting job. Its been proven " 08.Mar.2015 19:18

Yep.

And You Know Why ?

because he qualified with a 7.62 M-14.

Yep. 08.Mar.2015 19:25

i

Yep.

" the Marine Corps, the rest of the world, it is synonymous. " 08.Mar.2015 19:25

WRONG.

1) You were never in the USMC

2) The 2 types of sights, and terms are __not__ "synonymous".

3) If you were on a rifle range (in the military or __anywhere else__) and you identified the iron sights on a Carcano — or any other similar-era rifle with such configuration — as "peep sights",

any number of people there would slap yew upside YO haid.

(not only that, they'd probably also pull over another nearby firearm to show you a physical example of the distinction)


then they'd give you Maggie's Drawers (for having repeatedly missed all the targets),

and order you to immediately get back down there and qualify with a 7.62 M-14.

just like Oswald did.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429328.shtml#441706
"i" — the Troll who __REALLY KNOWS__ what he's talkin' bout.

huh? 08.Mar.2015 19:26

Randal

This has to be the dumbest thread I've seen here on PIMC and that's saying a lot.

WRONG. 08.Mar.2015 19:31

i

Ha.

Ok, whatever you say.

I never heard of the term Maggie's Drawers until the film JFK, never heard it since, except here. I guess that was an Air-wingers phrase or something.

I guess that means I wasn't in the Marines either, because all true Marines know not to use dashes, or get in pointless arguments with insane morons after they have proven the point many times over.

PS, are you going to email this thread to mom and dad and show them how proud they can be of you??

" has to be the dumbest thread I've seen here on PIMC " 08.Mar.2015 19:40

But Wait There's More

" has to be the dumbest thread I've seen "
- You must be a recent arrival.

WTC 7: Fires Fuelled By Office Furnishings
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/02/429214.shtml

Are Tall Buildings Safer As A Result Of The NIST WTC Reports?
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/02/429222.shtml

9/11 Film: ANATOMY OF A GREAT DECEPTION
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/02/429225.shtml

The Missing Security Tapes For The World Trade Center
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/02/429226.shtml

9/11 Mysteries: Demolitions (2006)
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/02/429229.shtml

Muslims Did Not Attack The U.S. On 9/11
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/02/429231.shtml

Two Oklahoma Airports: David Boren, KuwAm, And 9/11
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/02/429236.shtml

CIA Torture Whistleblower John Kiriakou: Wake Up, You're Next
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/02/429264.shtml

Was Lee Harvey Oswald An Expert Marksman?
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429303.shtml

The JFK Single-Bullet Theory
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429314.shtml

The Last Words Of Lee Harvey Oswald
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429324.shtml

Cause Of World Trade Center Destruction And Admissibility Of Expert Testimony
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429325.shtml

Testimony Of USMC Vet Nelson Delgado On Oswald's Marksmanship
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429328.shtml



All (probably more too, not posted above) due to the Troll "i" who has graced PIMC with his presence for the past couple months.

as you can see he's been hard at work.

" after they have proven the point many times over " 08.Mar.2015 19:48

uh huh

One point you proved beyond any doubt :

Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14.


M14:
introduced to USMC, 1964
introduced in small numbers only to US _Army_, July 1959

Oswald:
May 1959 final marksmanship qualification in USMC
October 1959 defected to USSR
Died November 1963


Mr. LIEBELER - What kind of rifle did you use?
Mr. DELGADO - He had an M1. We all had M1s.
Mr. LIEBELER - Carbine or rifle?
Mr. DELGADO - The M1 rifle.

( M1 = .30-06 )

Oh wait.................


" I never heard of the term Maggie's Drawers " 08.Mar.2015 19:57

Try To Keep Up.....

Perhaps that is because you didn't read (par for your course) the originally posted article ?


April 16, 1964 Testimony of Nelson Delgado to Assistant Counsel of Warren Commission :

-----
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you fire with Oswald?

Mr. DELGADO - Right; I was in the same line. By that I mean we were on line together, the same time, but not firing at the same position, but at the same time, and I remember seeing his. It was a pretty big joke, because he got a lot of "Maggie's drawers," you know, a lot of misses, but he didn't give a darn.

Mr. LIEBELER - Missed the target completely?

Mr. DELGADO - He just qualified, that's it. He wasn't as enthusiastic as the rest of us. We all loved--liked, you know, going to the range.

[in reference to possible alteration of scores]
Mr. DELGADO - Yes, I told him he may have, to qualify, because there was a lot of "Maggie's drawers" on his side. Now, he may have had some way of knowing who was pulling, that is another thing. You don't know who is out there in the pits, pulling it, see; and it could be a buddy of yours or somebody you know, and they will help you out. you know, get together, like before we all go and separate, you know, and I will say to my buddy, "Well, look, I want to try and get on line 22, you get on target 22 and I will try to be the first one on line"; so help each other like that. And when they go to the pits, they have their choice of getting on the lines, you know, so I will try to work it out with the fellow out there. But sometimes it doesn't work out that way. You just have to take your chances.
-----

Try To Keep Up..... 08.Mar.2015 20:15

i

congrats! you win a cookie. But Oswald still was able to make the shot(s) with ease..

Purpose Of The Side Mount Scope 08.Mar.2015 21:30

Try To Keep Up.....

Mounting a telescopic sight on a rifle such as the Carcano involves specific design of the mount so that the bolt action can properly cycle.

( The Carcano is but one example of many similar, old bolt-action rifle designs from that era, which require optic mount clearance in order to properly function-cycle the action and/or eject spent cartridges. Any perusal of older, antique firearms also shows many of these older scope mount designs, many off to the side or above, in order to clear the action-ejection. Many, though not all, more recent bolt-action rifles have their receivers designed to incorporate top-receiver mounts for optics. )

No, the purpose of the side mount scope on the Carcano was for firearm mechanical functionality only. Nothing to do with the possible 'dual use' of iron/telescopic sights (although due to the mount's design, that was one possible additional employment of it).


And as discussed above/on the other thread comment, use of the Carcano's iron sights (open sights) in the Dealey Plaza/TSBD sniper scenario would have been a virtually impossible proposition (too much near-instantaneous trajectory compensation required) :

 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429303.shtml#441673
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429328.shtml#441705

My _POSTING_ style is the most [OBNOXIOUS] thing on this site.. 09.Mar.2015 00:13

Try To Keep Up.....

You've seen a _LOT_ of me lately, right? I am clearly a miserable person, and I insist on using a lot of _UNDERSCORES_ and like to format my [POSTS] in ways that are visually criminal.

If you _DARE_ disagree with me, you will be referenced as a [TROLL] and possibly even an informant! There are tons of them. They are all out to [GET] _me_!!



Remember, everyone who doesn't swallow my nonsense is a _TROLL_.

Remember, all caps, underscores, unnecessary "quotes" and [BRACKETS]. The hallmarks of a true idiot. A smug, condescending idiot.

RE: My _POSTING_ style 09.Mar.2015 00:27

Try To Keep Up.....

Yeah the _real_ Try To Keep Up..... here.

You can see we're touching (grinding?) a nerve.

Scroll up thru the comments to see the Troll's sequential, passive-agressive transition as each one of his pathetic baseless flailings is mercilessly vaporized.

Not satisfied to have had his Ass handed to him, credibility annihilated on the "Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14" debacle,

now he falls back (again, used in recent past iirc) on the "it was only a dash" / "look how annoying the keystroke style" distraction.

Complete desperation acheived with the closing :
" Remember, all caps, underscores, unnecessary "quotes" and [BRACKETS]. The hallmarks of a true idiot. A smug, condescending idiot. "



Subsisting on vapors, he is.

He could really bolster his reputation 'round these parts with a bit of facts and logic to back up (even an eentsy, teensy bit of) what he asserts.

But of course by the time that happens the Sun will have engulfed the Earth.
(anyway truth, facts, logic aren't even his purpose for being here in the first place.)

never forget... "i" knows for a fact Oswald qualified with a 7.62 M-14.

Oswald did not kill Kennedy and here is the proof 09.Mar.2015 04:55

i

I used a dash between M and 14.

that the main point here, in case you failed to get during the the other 40 posts on this thread!

THERE IS NO DASH, and therefore the government's case crumbles away...

You heard it first here on alternative media!

I meant an M1, but... 09.Mar.2015 09:10

i

But, Because I said M-14 with a dash, that seems to drive Mr. Nice Try nuts, so lets stick with that for fun. (not that Mr. Nice Try needs any help)

I know how hard it is to hit a target at 500 meters consistently, or how easy it is at 82 meters, moving or otherwise. In Oswald's day, it was easier because he qualified with a 7.62 M-14, and I had to qualify in the 1970s with a 5.56 M-16A1. The maximum effective range of that weapon was 460 meters, 40 meters shy of the target you had to hit. The Marine Corps was forced to use the M-16 during Vietnam but the refused to lower their standards, hence required qualification at the same distances with a smaller caliber.

I'm not here for daily affirmations or an ego bath.. Not really focused on it, but when someone starts trying to tie 9-11 hologram remote control planes to Oswald (previous post), I just can't help but jump in and call "bullshit". actually at one time i was rather convinced that Oliver Stone was right. However i started to research it and found out how much of that movie was pure fiction (much of it was). It was very entertaining, and its a grand tale, but that doesn't mean most of it happened that way.

Anyway, you have been one of the few people here to engage in a thoughtful discussion of the topic instead of loony-toon type rants. I assume those people are incapable of any other type of dialog when their beliefs are challenged.

Blah blah blah 09.Mar.2015 09:55

That's Not What You Said, And We Don't Care

" In Oswald's day, it was easier because he qualified with a 7.62 M-14 "

" You must have been a marine or a cop, "

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2015/03/429303.shtml#441618
Stolen Valor Lying Sack Of Shit = "i"