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Why WEREN'T You Camped Out To Shut Down ICE For THE PAST 10 YEARS?

huh?


Answer the ****ing question.
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436224.shtml

only **THIS WEEK** June 2018, "Nazi Deportation" is 'important'? 22.Jun.2018 09:58

_

after

Corporate Media

tells you it is now, "important"?



after the Obama administration set records between 2008 and 2014 with the number of people arrested and placed in deportation proceedings?

during 2009 to 2016, when the Obama adminstration oversaw the forcible removal of more than 3 million undocumented immigrants?

after 2014, when President Obama put hundreds of families in immigration detention?

after January 2016, when the Obama administration openly targeted immigrant families for arrest, separation, and deportation via early dawn raids?


from 2009-2012, when ICE under Obama averaged 309,887 arrests per year (while ICE under Trump averaged 139,553 in 2017)?



WHERE


THE


***K


HAVE


YOU


BEEN?

Oct 2016: Last time PDX IMC posted Immigration Action to Newswire 22.Jun.2018 10:04

_

props to Joe Anybody for ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING :

_________________

27.Oct.2016 12:26
newswire article announcements portland metro
SOLIDARITY RALLY & Vigil for Immigrant Justice - "Standing against the hate" 10.27.16


 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/11/433748.shtml


Shhhh! You're not supposed to expose those facts! 22.Jun.2018 11:06

anon

Let's stick to dividing everyone and exacerbate hatred of each other.

A BIG dumb fucking question by _ 22.Jun.2018 11:10

Just Do It (long time indy reader)

So according to the (troll) _ I guess its too late now...huh?

So what do you want Indymedia readers to do? ... sit on their ass like "you" (_) have been doing for years as well

Fuck off & quit trying to disrupt this site and the actions people are engaging in

And just so you know it well ---> FUCK obama too and his immigration practices <---

Ignore this indy troll he is only here daily to sabotage

Fuck Obama Fuck Trump and Fuck this anti-Indymedia Troll _

"Let's stick to dividing everyone and exacerbate hatred of each other. " 22.Jun.2018 11:21

_

well you're ("anon") doing a fine job of that.



I don't give a ***K if _everyone_ "hates" each other, or even if everyone kills each other off.


What I can not abide,
is slavish Statism, and also slavish unthinking Follow-Your-Nose OBEDIENCE to what ever shiny Bait which Corporate Mass Media has tossed in your direction.

and then, calling it "Activism" or :

"Look At Us We're So VIRTUOUS and Fighting For Justice Is Our EMBLEM!"
"Pay Attention The Virtue Missionaries Have Arrived To Save Poor Little Migrant Children!"


time for you Fools to re-view the 1988 John Carpenter movie 'They Live'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9rrgJXfLns
_ wake _ THE **** _ up _ .

RE: "BIG dumb disrupt this site" You're a Lab Rat just like the rest. 22.Jun.2018 11:27

_

Hey BIG dumb "(long time indy reader)" [ LOL ],

first off **** YOU you lazy piece of ****.



Where where you during the Obama era?

"Ignore this indy troll he is only here daily to sabotage"

HOW is legitimate discussion of topics-issues, "sabotage" ?


YOU have SABOTAGED YOURSELVES BY FALLING HOOK, LINE, AND SINKER FOR CORPORATE MASS MEDIA BAIT.



A DOZEN ARTICLES ON THE NEWSWIRE about the "Immigration Atrocity" because of what Corporate Media pumped in to your little gonads/brains?


YES I'M 'YELLING' NOW BECAUSE YOU ARE **********INCAPABLE********** OF GETTING IT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS,

WHAT YOU HAVE TURNED INTO.


EXPERIMENTAL SUBJECTS OF CORPORATE MASS MEDIA, SOCIAL MEDIA (and natch, Trump's own 'trolling' of all of you ...)



Lab rats.

every last one of you.


See the ^^ above 1988 movie clip.

yeah, yeah, yeah... 22.Jun.2018 11:29

some old guy

right, ICE will be abolished, right after the prisons are, and the forever wars are stopped...

...if only talking shit and occasionally taking lame, useless actions could solve the world's many, many problems. by golly, then we'd get somewhere!

now, on to the next issue, for more of the same bullshit that's never worked, ever, once.

whatever you do, do NOT do anything to jeopardize your remaining privileges. i mean, really - it's just not worth it, and no one you know is suffering, right? hold on to your privileges, everyone, so that there will always be people out protesting. that's what really matters.

"there will always be people out protesting. that's what really matters." 22.Jun.2018 11:34

_

Indeed, and agreed.
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436218.shtml#452810


Yes of course it's good to get out and protest.

But what is being discussed in this topic, is the sudden EXPLOSION on Indymedia within the space of a few days

IN SEQUENTIAL CONCERT WITH HOW THE CORPORATE MASS MEDIA HAS COVERED THE EXACT SAME ISSUES.


That's what is being discussed here.

Portland Indy 'activists' being Led-By-Nose via Corporate Mass Media.


( in addition to the concomitant 'Trump-Is-A-NAZI-But-8-Years-Of-Obama-Wasn't-So-Bad-And-We-Don't-Even-Remember-Him-Anyway' psychological dysfunction, on regular display here )

"You either put on those glasses or start eating that trashcan."&#65279; 22.Jun.2018 11:51

_

"I already am eating from the trashcan. The name of this trashcan is ideology."&#65279;

( stolen from YouTube comments below 'They Live' clip )...

Hey _ 22.Jun.2018 12:08

WTF

For some reason did you think this web site was a pro Obama web site?. And why do you criticize those who post articles and comments when they are working for social changes, regardless of who is the president?

Hey troll 22.Jun.2018 12:18

WTF

Just cause it's in the corporate news DOES NOT mean it's not a concern or an issue. If this is the very first time you seen this topic over the last day or so on Indymedia then does that mean it's a non issue? I know immigration topics and BLM issues you despise but this web site is not pandering to what you decide is pertinent discussions. You actually seem like your a real a-hole, especially when I look back over your never ending criticism of others. In fact I see nothing worth mentioning that has ever been posted by you except shit talk.

Name one action you have been involved in that is part of the social justice movement? (crickets)

22.Jun.2018 12:08 ( Don't know why I'm bothering to respond, but... ) 22.Jun.2018 12:25

_

QUOTE:
---
"For some reason did you think this web site was a pro Obama web site?"
---

( I was beginning to, in the past few years and particularly in the pro-Hillary Clinton hysteria of the latter half of 2016 / beginning of 2017 ...)

Have been around here 18 years. Watched the site evolve, grow and go in many different directions.

Your question deserves no response from me. As a long time observer I know well what this site is and has been about.


QUOTE:
---
"And why do you criticize those who post articles and comments when they are working for social changes, regardless of who is the president?"
---

Beyond criticism, you are?

Debate Never heard of it?


RE: [QUOTE] "who is the president"
who the **** CARES, "who" the president is?


The point is, the SYSTEM. Make/encourage and foster changes in the system(s) of oppression.


Don't become mere puppets at the beck-and-whim of Corporate Mass Media while doing so.

Troll Muses 22.Jun.2018 12:41

WTF

This immigration topic is not reserved for "just for corporate media". Do you hear this crickets? Still waiting for one positive social justice reference that you have been involved with here on indymedia for all these years.

I know _wants this immigration topic shut down. And - trolls to exasperate any positive action to try & correct the injustice. Underscore works against the grain of those who seek change.

Prove me wrong. (crickets)

22.Jun.2018 12:18 ( Again, don't know why I'm bothering to respond, but... ) 22.Jun.2018 12:45

_

QUOTE:
---
"Just cause it's in the corporate news DOES NOT mean it's not a concern or an issue."
---

Correct.

and well put, well taken.

a few corporate media-sourced articles which occasionally are re-posted here to Indymedia, is a normal and acceptable practice which sometimes exposes activists to topics that are little-covered elsewhere even by independent sources and-or are otherwise obscured by the inundating deluge of irrelevant corporate media coverage output.

and absolutely the topic of alien migrants (the way that U.S. government deals with them) is an important and relevant one (see above and below).


QUOTE:
---
"If this is the very first time you seen this topic over the last day or so on Indymedia then does that mean it's a non issue?"
---

what on Earth are you even talking about?


Have you read or seen what is being discussed?

" Watching Indymedia dance to the tune of corporate media hysteria is sad. "
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436224.shtml
Final thoughts... 21.Jun.2018 19:32 Erasmus
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436166.shtml#452814
The U.S. Has Been In The Business Of Breaking Up Families For Years
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436218.shtml
Protect Immigrants' Rights: End The Crises That Drive Migration
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436217.shtml



QUOTE:
---
" I know immigration topics and BLM issues you despise "
---

^ W T F ?!

( see above and below )


QUOTE:
---
" but this web site is not pandering to what you decide is pertinent discussions. "
---

First let's explain some things You apparently don't understand.

"this web site" is User-directed in content.
i.e. the Users post stories which discuss and are useful in topics and information for activists.
Users, decide what appears on the newswire.
on rare occasion Portland Indy workerbees decide that Duplicate postings, or postings which are completely irrelevant or very easily obtained-sourced elsewhere, shall be deleted... but this is a tiny percentage exception to the vast majority of User-Determined Content, here.

RE: "pertinent discussions"

Any topic can be 'pertinent',

it just requires an understanding of Language and actual methods of presenting one's case and backing up what one is saying.
You may not, perhaps agree with what another person is expressing... but you can at least find ways to Understand their point of view.
Rather than resort to Twitter-soundbite insults, accusations, retorts or ignorance of what other persons have presented to you in terms of their views or information.

I certainly do not define what is "pertinent". Yet the discussion here is not about what is "pertinent", rather it is about Indymedia's proclivity, this past week, of being Puppeted by Corporate Mass Media on a topic which has existed and worsened for many years, yet this week's explosion of more than a dozen Newswire stories on it makes it appear as though, the problem came from nowhere.


QUOTE:
---
"You actually seem like your [sic] a real a-hole, especially when I look back over your never ending criticism of others. "
---

You've "looked back" on what I have posted to the Portland Indymedia web site?

Profiling me?

How do you even know it is "me" (and what is "me" to begin with...) ?


RE: "never ending criticism"

Unable to back up or adequately defend/bolster your own points of view?

grow a spine.



QUOTE:
---
"In fact I see nothing worth mentioning that has ever been posted by you except shit talk."
---

"shit talk" was "worth mentioning" ?

Let's see the link to my so-called "shit talk".

And, see ^above for how to actually stand up and defend your own point of view.
( Incapable of doing so? quit then being a crybaby and go somewhere that gives you a trophy for every word out of your mouth. )


QUOTE:
---
" Name one action you have been involved in that is part of the social justice movement? (crickets) "
---

RE: "the social justice movement"
"social justice" is not 'one' thing.

I campaigned for environmental issues, farm workers, LGBT rights, and against NAFTA since the 1990s. I was arrested at the Nevada Test Site. anti-war demonstrations in 2001 and 2003. and, much more.


what have you done?

22.Jun.2018 12:41 ( Sigh ........................ ) 22.Jun.2018 12:55

_

QUOTE:
---
" This immigration topic is not reserved for "just for corporate media". Do you hear this crickets? "
---

WHOO-OOSH.

did you hear that?

it was the actual topic, rocketing over your Head.


The point is not that, the corporate media has [Your Word] "reserved" the topic of immigration.

The point (as demonstrated by the related newswire discussions and articles linked above) is that,
Indymedia is now being Puppeted and Led-By-Its-Nose, by the U.S. Corporate Mass Media on the immigration issue,
as evidenced by the dozen-or-so posts to the Newswire which precisely co-ordinated with the U.S. Corporate Mass Media's coverage of said topics in this past week.


QUOTE:
---
"Still waiting for one positive social justice reference that you have been involved with here on indymedia for all these years."
---

Posted above.

( and, waiting on yours.................................. crickets )



QUOTE:
---
" I know _wants this immigration topic shut down. "{
---

Lol.

See above for (Un-comprehended by You) the actual operation of Indymedia by its Users.

I don't determine the topic or discussion; and neither do you.

RE: immigration, it's a very interesting and important issue / topic. Evidence in the articles / discussions ^^ linked above.



QUOTE:
---
And - trolls to exasperate any positive action to try & correct the injustice. Underscore works against the grain of those who seek change.
---

"Underscore", Lol you think you've "labeled" me?

It's a big conspiracy, Amirite?

the posts, Ideas and discussion to which you have Zero ability to intelligently or rationally respond to or defend,

are merely an "exasperating" or "work against grain" of your Blessed virtuous causes?

No matter how virtuous, righteous or Blessed you may think you / your cause are.... You still must defend and back it up with rational thought and action.

Mere appearance of challenging ideas is no justification for Ad Hominem. Try actually defending your strategies, actions and expression.

( But that won't happen because, in reality, you're the Troll. )

Prove me wrong. (crickets)

Chiming in 22.Jun.2018 13:09

Comment

The so called (18 year) indy trolls quotes: "a few corporate media-sourced articles which occasionally are re-posted here to Indymedia, is a normal and acceptable practice which sometimes exposes activists to topics that are little-covered elsewhere even by independent sources and-or are otherwise obscured by the inundating deluge of irrelevant corporate media coverage output." In other words _ is saying "his reposts of corporate media articles" are worth posting but this current immigration topic doesn't qualify and therefore Indymedia is a puppet for corporate media.

RE: "In other words" Swing, And A MISS. 22.Jun.2018 13:20

_

QUOTE:
---
"his reposts of corporate media articles" are worth posting
---

Any reposts of (certain) corporate-media-sourced articles are worth posting.

Mother Jones worth posting on Indymedia?

perhaps but that is not even the point. If the topic in question is not being widely shared on the internet more broadly, or on other forms of internet-based social media, and is of value to street activists and agents for social change then it can ? be worth sharing, here.

also, depends on how one defines "corporate media" Yes, Owned By A Corporation (is the main criteria).
but some Corporate-Owned sources are smaller in size, circulation and-or have 'independent' characteristics and even a substantial amount of leeway in the topics they actively cover (many of which would be anathema for most corporate sources).


Ultimately, however if a "worthless" story is posted ( such as a Duplicate of something already existing ) then Portland Indymedia volunteers will delete it from the newswire.



QUOTE:
---
" but this current immigration topic doesn't qualify "
---

Illiterate, are you?

We already ^^ went through this.
No One, has said "immigration doesn't qualify" (to be posted on the Newswire).


See above, and below.


QUOTE:
---
"and therefore Indymedia is a puppet for corporate media."
---


See above.



Indymedia IS NOT, NEVER HAS BEEN, AND EVEN TODAY 22 JUNE 2018 IS NOT A "puppet" of Corporate Media

because we are User-defined and operated.



SPECIFIC Phenomenon being called attention to here (READ CAREFULLY, I KNOW YOU'RE CAPABLE) :

" Watching Indymedia dance to the tune of corporate media hysteria is sad. "
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436224.shtml
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436166.shtml#452814

A spelentic explosion of stories, in perfect Synchronization with the U.S. corporate mass media's coverage of the past 5 or 6 days.

No it isnt 22.Jun.2018 13:26

WTF

(idiot quote from the troll _)

QUOTE:
---
" This immigration topic is not reserved for "just for corporate media". Do you hear this crickets? "
---

WHOO-OOSH.

did you hear that?

it was the actual topic, rocketing over your Head.

.......................

That is not "the topic" here. There is no WHOO-OOSH because your pathetic topic is a shit talk post and is not debate inspired but is critical and meant to stop the discussion and roll out some "what did you say about it when obama was prez" or how indymedia is a corporate media tool. That is not having a discussion or a debate - this is pure intended disruption. To bad all you energy you use out here on this web site isn't helping motivate anyone and rubs against the grain of working for social justice.

No WHOO-OOSH going on here just addressing your back-n-forth "wordsmithing" and reading over your long winded cricket attempt at justifying your use of this activist volunteer run web site, that you obviously have no respect for these days.

RE: "No it isnt" 22.Jun.2018 13:52

_

QUOTE:
---
" That is not "the topic" here. "
---

WHOO-OOSH.

Wrong. That is the topic.

It is (in Erasmus' words) sad and pathetic to see Indymedia dance to the corporate mass media tune, this week.



QUOTE:
---
"your pathetic topic is a shit talk post "
---



QUOTE:
---
" and is not debate inspired "
---

"Inspired" ?

Exchange of ideas.

Debate.

Do you want to exchange ideas? Yes or No.






QUOTE:
---
" but is critical and meant to stop the discussion
---

Who's "stopping" discussion?

let's discuss.

Don't namecall, ridicule or should down.


"critical" No criticism is allowed, anywhere at any time?

Not possible or permissible to criticise tactics, actions or methods?

Acceptance of what _you_ say, is the absolute truth? Not to be questioned?



QUOTE:
---
" and roll out some "what did you say about it when obama was prez" "
---


8 years of Obama administration is nothing to be ignored.

"roll out" What? who cares?

why don't you roll on out of here.




QUOTE:
---
" or how indymedia is a corporate media tool "
---

No one said ^ that.

Who said that? Provide the link.



QUOTE:
---
" That is not having a discussion or a debate - "
---

It is the VERY DEFINITION of a 'debate'.


Exchange of ideas. Discussion.

Which you are actively avoiding by your pure intended disruption.




QUOTE:
---
" this is pure intended disruption. "
---

You / what you post, yes. Indeed.



QUOTE:
---
"To [sic] bad all you energy you use out here on this web site isn't helping motivate anyone and rubs against the grain of working for social justice."
---

Purpose of Indymedia is User-based non-Corporate Mass Media exchange of information.

( Unlike for example, Facebook. )


As to "motivate"

'Motivation' is up to the end user. Information can be used for many different purposes, including social change.

It's really too bad that mental midgets such as yourself are incapable of :
1) Processing information
2) Using that information to better themselves / their situation
3) Engaging in comprehensible discussion, rather than Name-Calling / Labeling / Categorizing / Down-Talking any points of view which don't automatcally provide you with a free trophy for having made a keystroke.



QUOTE:
---
"just addressing your back-n-forth "wordsmithing"
---

( "addressing") You've done no such thing.

You can't even stay on topic.




QUOTE:
---
" and reading over your long winded cricket attempt "
---

"reading" - You actually read and comprehended what has been posted and discussed?

Not evident.


"cricket" - What is your attachment to this word?

Get some counseling. You're sick in the head.


QUOTE:
---
" at justifying "
---

I am not "justified".

Neither are you.

both of us, though can (?) exchange ideas and debate them.

Which you've been proven incapable of.



QUOTE:
---
" your use of this activist volunteer run web site, that you obviously have no respect for these days. "
---

Website?

or, the "activists"?

the Portland Indymedia site, I have plenty of respect for ever since it began.

( activists that's another story. It became especially pathetic during the Obama years post-2008 Wall Street Bailout. but let's not go there.)

"these days" - What did you mean by that?
were you implying, somehow that I might have "had more respect back in the day"? Do you (think you) know me? Lol.

don't answer that. Just keep your **** fingers away from computer keyboards and mobile device screens, ok?

I got rick-trolled by _ 22.Jun.2018 15:23

WTF

Your assine article posted here *demands: "Answer the ****ing question." Who the hell do you think you are with that kind of demand?

And title "Why WEREN'T You Camped Out To Shut Down ICE For THE PAST 10 YEARS?" Damn your nothing but shit talk. You are marginalizing the seriousness of the immigration issue and throwing indymedia under the buss (due) to you wanting to nix this topic and are upset due to a half dozen posts on Immigration & Families. What kind of activism is it that you are engaging in and what is this shit talk post suppose to accomplish? You spent over a dozen comments on this thread that are nothing but rants (ad nauseum). This article is a shitty post and the link you pasted is more anti-indymedia disruption that shits right on top of of a serious family / immigration subject REGARDLESS of corporate medias position. For 18 years of reading and posting here you seem to be on a tangent and your lack of respect must be disheartening to immigrants and activist who are really doing the work for change.

It is now your turn for your typical wordsmithing and spin the bottle reply. I bet you are glad you can derail real discussion, I fell for it and you rick-trolled me. Your here to disrupt and all your ranting does is prove it. LOL I wasted my time and everyone who is reading this ... Your not here to help your here to tip this over and derail the issue.

Because ICE is a symptom not the problem 22.Jun.2018 15:33

Erasmus

Solve the problems of economic inequality and there would be no ICE. Instead of obsessing about ICE how about focusing on stopping environmental degradation and pollution, helping move the world toward sustainable economic practices and self sufficient lifestyles and encouraging people, and yourselves, to reject the wasteful destructive mass consumerism of the West and understand it is not the key to happiness and fulfillment.

Are you fighting for change or derailing the issue 22.Jun.2018 16:25

WTF

Those are all good goals and actions to work on, speaking for myself I am actively involved in all those issues probably like the majority of indymedia readers. I fully agree and at the same time I'm working to end the oppressive ICE tactics and to be politically engaged to push back. Would love more support from the average citizen and less negative pushing back or the derailing of those that are on the frontline or those who are working to change policy. The points you mentioned in this thread Earmus I agree with, the point of the article you posted and the one the troll _ mentions in his article is not something I agree with and to me seems to undermine those who are working to change this sad debacle of immigration and human rights.

RE: "debacle of immigration and human rights " 22.Jun.2018 18:33

_

Isn't that the actual mission of activism, and (partly) of Indymedia?

to work on solving that?


and, part of that mission and all of the work leading to it, is to DISCUSS tactics, methods, and work itself.

How the goals of the movement are being attained. Roles that the existing oppressive structures (e.g. U.S. corporate mass media) play, in the struggle.

or do you not wish to discuss those things? How, all this week you've been puppeted (not only by trolling-Trump himself) by the U.S. corporate media 'outrage' which pulls strings of Middle America, "Oh The Hugh-Manatee".... "think of the children" [for 5 minutes, then its back to Kardashians for them]

anyway, plenty of Gutless wastes of space in "activism" today. 22.Jun.2018 18:37

_

proven by the Social Media-addled Poseur name calling in this thread.

good luck in your pathetic lives, 22.Jun.2018 15:23, 22.Jun.2018 16:25, 22.Jun.2018 17:52, 22.Jun.2018 17:54


Keep responding, I'm going to love the additional Crash-'N'-Burns as they tally below

****tards

again 22.Jun.2018 21:51

WTF

he (underscore) said tards

WTF = TARD. 22.Jun.2018 22:07

_

Yeah that's you

here's hoping you get your head stoved in, DUMB ***K.
(Won't be too difficult for you to accomplish that with your level of Social Media skills, ought happen Almost ALL BY ITSELF)


**** OFF

Still No Response on the original question 22.Jun.2018 22:10

_

All the original social justice activists are dead, now?

of old age / Alzheimers?

someone earlier mentioned a 'Tipping Point' 22.Jun.2018 23:06

_

( maybe it was on another article ? thread ... anyway )


That somehow, whether or not this week's outrage widely-propogate by U.S. corporate media is "authentic" movement-oriented or -originated,
it can all lead to a 'tipping point' for years of negative effects and crackdowns by ICE / Border Patrol on migrants.

Yes I can see that: If the Left is able to cohesively not only organize, but also get legislators (on both sides of the aisle) in U.S. government to put forward reforms in U.S. border enforcement that will actually work.

but with Trump in office, and "build the wall" etc. being a large part of his stated agenda (in addition to being a longtime 'pet issue' of his own) I don't actually know how that could come about.

At least, as alluded by the person who brought up "tipping point" with reference to this week's public outrage and corporate media coverage, there is greater awareness; and also an acknowledgement by most Americans who've heard and cared about the issue, to perhaps 'do something' or otherwise become "involved" (or at least ? concerned) about alien migrants in the future.

here is the 'Tipping Point' comment link : 22.Jun.2018 23:09

_

The U.S. Has Been In The Business Of Breaking Up Families For Years
---

This issue is not a contest 21.Jun.2018 17:40
\|\|

 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436218.shtml#452809
" The tipping point is here and now. "

RE: Erasmus "ICE is a symptom not the problem" : 22.Jun.2018 23:24

_

yes, the Right Wing (not only here in the U.S., but in Europe... part of a movement which contributed to and supported Brexit) is extremely paranoid about the "diluting" People Of Color who are "inundating" their nations in "unstoppable waves" ...

i.e. the Right Wing is conditioned to think of migrant issues, from a completely Racist and race-oriented perspective. They barely, or will not at all, consider what Erasmus brought up i.e. the environmental and geopolitical conditions and circumstances in advance which cause these migrations to continue occurring.

Such 'paranoia' (about "invading nonwhite hordes") is widely shared, among European and American right wing (almost all white) populations, and is an ideological view spread further by right wing think tanks, Nationalist groups and politicians (including of course Trump), whether in "diluted" or 'harsh'/pure forms of racism.

Some of this was also covered in the recently posted article here :

Protect Immigrants' Rights: End The Crises That Drive Migration

 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436217.shtml



Anyway the sharp Ideological difference in viewing and framing the basic issue itself, particularly in the U.S. (where Mexico border migration has long, especially since the 1970s, been a 'pet issue' for the American Right Wing and Republicans), are part of why there seems to be insolubility.

as far as the original question, state of activism today : 22.Jun.2018 23:39

_

Sure it's good that a showing for ICE be made, by activists for change.

The issue being raised here, this week of June 2018, though is that the sudden "concern" arrives atop a wave of corporate-media generated anti-administration sentiment (with grounded basis in the administration's well known hard line border/immigrant policy stance).

preceding Obama administration, however was just as, if not more so in many ways (including amounts of deportations: _much_ more) hard line.

So the question is:

Will immigrant activism be "reactive" i.e. follow what appears to be the U.S. corporate media's own anti-Trump administration stance,
or devise its own moral and tactical foundation?

Right now, this country's population is so starkly polarized, and the U.S. corporate mass media (while appearing to be "pro-Democrat" in some ways while really just being 'anti-status-quo' translation, 'anti-person-who-won-Nov-2016-election') has taken the "default" opposition position which makes it difficult for true grassroots movements to be visible; they just get lumped in with "being against the President".

using the 'immigration' topic page selection on Indy's page : 23.Jun.2018 00:03

_

it appears that, on Portland Indymedia anyway, the last major Local action that was posted here under that topic was

27.Oct.2016 12:26
Joe Anybody
SOLIDARITY RALLY & Vigil for Immigrant Justice - "Standing against the hate" 10.27.16

 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/10/433552.shtml
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so that would be the most recent instance (prior to this week's explosion of national attention to the issue) that Portland Indymedia and local activists appear to have had time to devote to it.

To - 23.Jun.2018 15:06

Erasmus

Debating far right wingnuts can be difficult, though I find them actually to be a little more flexible than most so called progressives, who can often be even more rigid in their belief system. Usually they ignore me or curse me out (see my previous postings...LOL) while I can usually at least get some sort of dialogue going with the right wingers.
However, yes and thank you - for your thoughtful and informed response. When debating those on the right there might be a point of commonality in opposing mass migrations, but for different reasons, they have a paranoia about "purity" of race and I think a certain amount of migration is healthy and enriching, but only if it happens organically and voluntarily. Anytime there are large dislocations of people then you have to look at the underlying causes and address them, something I just can't find a lot of so called anarchist, progressive, SJW's willing to do, always nice to hear from someone who sees the bigger picture.
Coercive mass migrations are not healthy and would not occur if we had an economically just world.

RE (Erasmus): the migration issue, broadly 23.Jun.2018 16:29

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Yes, as you say migration between countries should be 'organic and natural'; problem is that a whole generation of Right leaning people in the U.S. and Western Europe (not to mention the right-fascist elements in Eastern Europe...) think of it entirely as a "Conspiracy" ('globalist' i.e. the rightwing/Alex Jones connotation in nature) and in black-white racial terms. And, as you note, mostly fail to recognize the true roots of globalist policies, broader coercive economic issues, damage & influence of NAFTA / WTO over past decades, environmental concerns etc.

RE (Erasmus): Debate and exchange of ideas, plus the ideology trap 23.Jun.2018 16:36

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Dialogue (with individuals of any particular leaning)

Ideological adherence (imho deserving of its own topic article, which I've mulled over for some time) is the problem.

Right wingers, of course, do and are justly famous for their own variants of crackpot ideologies; but it seems to me that the Trump 'movement' itself, is post-Tea Party, post-Occupy (a few isolated elements of which they actually can be open to) in evolution and does not adhere, for example (yes I know that Jeff Sessions is the AG and Pence is VP, but they are the 'tokens' in this administration) to the Christian Fundamentalist ideologues of the Reagan 1980s>into GWB 2000s... nor, specifically, does it adhere to the Neocon Imperialism of Clintons/Perle/McCain/Wolfowitz/Poppy Bush/Shrub/Cheney/Obama, etc. Trump himself has made statements over many years (not just the past few) about costs of America's imperial wars (e.g.  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/10/433491.shtml ) and while yes, he wants to 'pump up'/fund the military and "build a wall" (Lol), he is plainly not in favor of 'nation building' or becoming mired in long term military occupations. (See for example his recent "What? You think we're so innocent?"comment this week  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/10/433491.shtml ) and while yes, he wants to 'pump up'/fund the military and "build a wall" (Lol), he is plainly not in favor of 'nation building' or becoming mired in long term military occupations. (See for example his recent "What? You think we're so innocent?"comment this week  link to portland.indymedia.org (which 100% backed Hillary Clinton in 2016).

In addition, it seems that many younger right wingers of the 'Pepe the frog' generation have a strong libertarian streak (which itself breaks strong and dissociates from the Fake-libertarianism that was sold to millions by GOP's Ronald Reagan from 1980-1988 due to their clear understanding of how he overtopped U.S. federal spending and expansion of FedGov).... this can be used to effectively create lines of dialogue, at least (whether they would ever lead to some sort of 'political alliance' is entirely another matter.... but, at one point prior to his nomination Trump did eagerly anticipate a debate with Bernie Sanders....)

Today's leftist, on the other hand seems to have become ever more ensconced (imprisoned?) within ideological mazes and blind alleys. Voracious attacks on such academics as Jordan Peterson, are an example. Concerning mainstream U.S. politics more broadly, the Democrat party bears zero resemblance to what it "made its name" on during, let's say the post-WWII 1950s and 1960s era, when American labor unions were still strong and active not only in business and communities but in legislative politics. Labor is no longer a base for the Democratic Party which has been taken over by big technocratic corporate interests; in that respect they are virtually one-and-same identical with today's GOP. Even Bernie Sanders, having been stabbed in the back July 2016 by the DNC, proved this ( see Chris Hedges' piece last week  link to portland.indymedia.org )

But if the *ideology* of today's Democrats is all narrowly founded on rainbow flags and Black Lives Matter what do you have? No class component (which is what Labor brought to the table). That is why Trump won, if one is asked to isolate a sole reason. Hillary (sure she was a dismally awful candidate overall, but) simply could not sustain a presidential campaign let alone victory based on 'ethnic awareness' and "I'm for women" (more than half of white women voted for Trump  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/11/433885.shtml ). Meanwhile, Trump constantly campaigned Rust Belt areas and demographics Clintons never even set foot in.

I have no idea what to think of today's self-proclaimed "leftist". They certainly have no political purpose, basis or grounding; it's all "ideological" posturing. The 'right' (such as it still exists today) has Trump for the moment; but even he has partly taken a wrecking ball to his own Republican party, large and powerful forces within which attempted to sabotage his candidacy and choice-to-nomination with millions of dollars input.

So it seems to me (imho) that as you hint, there may ? possibly be some opportunity for 'common ground' at least in the discussion and debate of issues with the right wing. As long as a person is capable, for example of not immediately characterizing-stereotyping some one with a red 'MAGA' hat or driving a pickup truck, as a "Nazi".

( part of that 1st longer ^ paragraph was truncated by IMC's servers ) - MIC 23.Jun.2018 16:40

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Trump also has high placed opposition in the Military Industrial complex (which 100% backed Hillary Clinton in 2016); he has made disparaging statements since his election about the multi-trillion dollar F-35 fighter aircraft program for example.

Donald Trump Could Be The Military-Industrial Complex's Worst Nightmare
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/07/432871.shtml


^ not that he is their "worst nightmare" necessarily;
the point is, he's no Hillary Clinon (who they wanted) or Bush(es)/ Cheney / Rumsfeld.

p.s. to the last 2 comments 23.Jun.2018 17:02

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I don't know why (for some, apparently) this stuff is so hard to understand. Pretty plain and easily comprehended when broken down.

Post-mortems on the 2016 election have been referenced above and elsewhere (not to mention Brexit in Europe).
This, I thought was a particularly incisive one on U.S. voters and American left 2016 :  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2016/11/433787.shtml
Plus, Glenn Greewald (who has long known 'what's up') recently on the "Russia" tropes  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/02/435490.shtml

Dialogue: the first step, is to acknowledge the facts. i.e. Reality. Where we are today, and what is _wrong_.

For the American left today, they don't even know what's wrong (with themselves / their position / their 'movement'). Furthermore, very very few of them acknowledge or introspect about it, let alone become knowledgeable. It's symptoms are the unhinged Freak-outs against Trump (e.g. Peter Fonda), because quite simply old-Left (and Antifa is partly Ideologically mired in old-Left aka 1968 left) foundations no longer exist for today's political landscape.

again, as I see it: Ideological adherence is the main problem, particularly facing the left. Identity politics, for them, more specifically; that will never ever be enough for what's happening across 21st century industrialized technocratic civilization.

It seems to be a particular problem (as you Erasmus noted and we've seen in the past several years, especially during and since Obama) with the far left such as Antifa. Their entire program is based so heavily, on neatly / hip-ly formulated and articulated Ideology (plus fixation on Neo-Nazis), that now they can't even get out of their own way.

further to Ideology and transformation thereof 23.Jun.2018 18:16

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Goes along with morphing ('purifying'?...) of the Democratic Party, their backers, acolytes, related advocacy groups, and the overall loose associations of today's American left.

For the ACLU, it means becoming more 'discriminating' in an ideologically-based manner as to which (previously eternal-ethereal) Constitutional principles it has famously and steadfastly stood for in the past.

Ideological drift, is a thing.

Tim Pool breaks it down :

After Charlottesville, Ideological Transformation Of ACLU Away From Free Speech Advocacy
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436236.shtml


because... 27.Jun.2018 03:30

disgusted

nobody had a convenient Trump to target and billions of dollars to fund the outside mysterious unknown organizers of these current actions/ protests. They just whistle and you the mindless crazy dupes will jump.
Our country can't absorb more than the usual 1,300,000+ of real lawful immigrants per year, it's already a big burden for We the people. ( most of these REAL immigrants are from Latin America, they are NOT illegal aliens disregarding our laws that protect our country).
Who the hell are these self-appointed "special ones" who think they should cut in front of those who did things the lawful way? unaccountable,antisocial, untrustworthy desperadoes.

all you are doing is showing how lawless, bad character, unreasonable and harmful to our country you are, against us, and thus NOT deserving of entering the country.
get in line, lowlife disrespectful self serving bitches. You literally have NO right to just do as you please. WE do not need YOU. That's why a lot of illegals currently have to dumpster dive in order to eat, and have no place to live. Nobody will hire them.