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Trump Bends Over for Putin: Are the "P.P. Tapes" Real?

Alec Baldwin's spoof was a comedy milestone. But what if it's freakin' TRUE?
The A.P. reporter who asked Putin whether he had any compromising material on his Trumpness must have known he would never get an honest answer. Think Putin's would tell you if he did? His initial smirk and pregnant pause caused ripples of giggles among the crowd in Helsinki. Putin's weak defense that the Steele Dossier was a fabrication because he knew "all about dossiers" since he was a former KGB Kahuna. But most of that dossier has turned out to be true. No P.P. tapes have surfaced but that could change too. Trump's statement that "If (Putin) had any material on me he would have used it already" is extremely revealing in light of Putin's blurb that there "was no reason" to (spy) on Trump when he had visited Russia. He claimed he didn't even know Trump was in Russia back then. He doth protest too much! It looks like Putin might really have an HD DVD of The Donald in the same room as several Russian intelligence assets posing as prostitutes. They're in various states of undress and bouncing up and down on a King-Size bed that President Obama had slept in on his last visit there. Doesn't take a lot to imagine the Russians wiring up that hotel room and making sure American VIP's that spark their interest can be spied upon. They don't even need any technology in the room anymore. Invisible lasers and x-ray photography do the job. Plus Presidents do get sloppy, don't they? God knows what our adversaries had on JFK in the illicit romance department. So are they urinating on the Presidential pillows, jumping around laughing with quart bottles of Stolie's waving in the air while his Redness does his Elvis imitation in the corner? If it were true it were certainly explain Trump's complete Neville Chamberlain tribute performance with Vladimir Putin. The funniest part was when Putin said Russia was a Democracy with a capital "D". He's been in absolute control for EIGHTEEN YEARS. Trump isn't funny anymore.

errors 16.Jul.2018 10:33

rAT

Sorry for the errors. I'm still in shock and it's only been an hour.

honestly 16.Jul.2018 11:36

Clyde

That was the most appalling thing I have ever seen from a US president in my lifetime.

was Trump President of U.S., when supposed "tape" was made? 16.Jul.2018 14:09

_

.

RE: "most of that dossier has turned out to be true" — 16.Jul.2018 17:14

lol

More and more of the infamous Steele Dossier is turning out to be true, according to James Clapper Barack Obama's former Director of National Intelligence ...


Clapper was officially nominated by President George W. Bush to be Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence (USD(I)) on January 29, 2007, and confirmed by the United States Senate on April 11, 2007. He was the second person ever to hold this position, which oversees the Defense Intelligence Agency, the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency (NSA), and the National Reconnaissance Office. He also worked closely with DNI John Michael McConnell.

who is 'rAT', _really_ .............................

Trump dismissed the U.S.-U.K. intel community — 16.Jul.2018 17:34

_

( other than ^ this I have no freaking idea of what everyone is losing their ***t about .... )

________


--> Clyde [quote: "most appalling thing I have ever seen from a US president"], your pal John McCain said this :

""Today's press conference in Helsinki was one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory. The damage inflicted by President Trump's naiveté, egotism, false equivalence, and sympathy for autocrats is difficult to calculate. But it is clear that the summit in Helsinki was a tragic mistake."

Maria Buttina 16.Jul.2018 18:11

A.K.

Is Buttina still in custody? Looking for her mugshot.

Maria Buttina 16.Jul.2018 18:18

A.K.

Still in custody, appearance tomorrow.

Mitt Romney kicks off his 2020 campaign: Trump "disgraceful" 16.Jul.2018 18:18

Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) July 16, 2018

My statement on today's summit in Helsinki. pic.twitter.com/WSxFGDKMau

"... side with Putin over American intelligence agencies ... "


"... over American intelligence agencies ... "


"... over American intelligence agencies ... "


"... American intelligence agencies ... "


The Rocky Road to Helsinki 16.Jul.2018 19:15

by John V. Walsh / July 15th, 2018

This is written July 14, two days before the Helsinki summit between Presidents Trump and Putin, and everything is on schedule in very predictable fashion - according to script.

In the US, Rod Rosenstein has released "indictments" of 12 Russians who are accused of "hacking" Democratic National Committee servers and other Democratic Party associated computers. These mysterious hackers are allegedly associated with the Russian government, for which there is not a shred of evidence. Right on cue, Schumer, Pelosi and other leading Democrats called on Trump to cancel his meeting with Putin. How lucky for them that these indictments came down precisely at this moment. It does not take a genius to understand that Rosenstein could have withheld them for a week so as not to undermine the President as he pursues Détente 2.0.

Likewise the discredited Skripal case has been thrust into the headlines again in good time for the summit. Even Greece, normally very friendly with Russia, expelled a few diplomats several days back due to the resurrection of l'affaire Skripal, thus jeopardizing an upcoming visit by Russian FM Lavrov.

Finally, Trump attended the NATO meetings to assure the "allies" that Putin of the taiga that they so fear would not frighten him. He even promised to hold fast to "obsolete" NATO if the Europeans provided more Euros for the Cold War behemoth now lumbering about from Afghanistan to Libya and beyond tearing up the place and killing innocents far and wide. In this way did Trump armor himself against the hawks.

And, of course, the pundits have been shrieking at the top of their lungs that Trump is disrupting the Cold War order. The air is thick with such emanations as Russian expert Stephen F. Cohen reminds us thus:

As a rule, American presidents have departed for summits with bipartisan support and well-wishes. Trump's upcoming meeting with Russian President Putin, in Helsinki on July 16, is profoundly different in two respects. US-Russian relations have rarely, if ever, been more dangerous. And never before has a president's departure—in Trump's case, first for a NATO summit and then the one with Putin—been accompanied by allegations that he is disloyal to the United States and thus cannot be trusted, defamations once issued only by extremist fringe elements in American politics. Now, however, we are told this daily by mainstream publications, broadcasts, and "think tanks." According to a representative of the Clintons' Center for American Progress, "Trump is going to sell out America and its allies." The New York Times and The Washington Post also feature "experts"—they are chosen accordingly—who "worry" and "fear"that Trump and Putin "will get along." The Times of London, a bastion of Russophobic Cold War advocacy, captures the mainstream perspective in a single headline: "Fears Grow Over Prospect of Trump 'Peace Deal' with Putin.

An anti-"peace" Washington establishment is, of course, what still-unproven Russiagate allegations have wrought, as summed up by a New Yorkmagazine writer who advises us that the Trump-Putin summit may well be "less a negotiation between two heads of state than a meeting between a Russian-intelligence asset and his handler.""

The roots and ramifications of this hysteria are explored by CJ Hopkins in the fashion they richly deserve in his essay "Hardcore Hitler on Hitler in Helsinki" here. And on it goes.

Amidst all this perfervid consternation Trump is enjoying a few rounds of golf in Scotland. He has also declared that Putin is a "competitor" but not an "enemy," a distinction the politically anencephalic Cold War set cannot grasp. But Trump continues to insist that it is a "good thing not a bad thing" for the US "to get along with Russia" - and China and North Korea and others. So Trump continues to stick with this motif from the 2016 campaign even though it eats up a lot of political capital and exposes him to the barrage of hysterical attacks outlined above. That is a sound sign that his declared intent is genuine.

The Russiagate witch hunt makes it nearly impossible for Trump to make concessions to Russia in return for concessions to us. Absent that, there is no way forward, no deals, no Détente 2.0. So the witch hunters are willing to risk nuclear confrontation to preserve the old Cold World Order or to indulge a blanket hatred for all things Trump. Such monsters do not deserve the time of day, let alone a vote, no matter whether they call themselves conservatives or liberals - and more of them seem to bear the liberal label these days.

This summit will present far more difficult political problems than did the Singapore meeting with Kim Jong-un. In Singapore all the interested parties wanted denuclearization of the Korean peninsula - Kim, Moon, the people of Korea, Trump, Xi and Putin, and even Abe. So to begin this deal was a no-brainer, and it is quite astonishing in retrospect that the previous administration failed to do so.

But the Summit poses great problems, because of the political pressures brought to bear on Putin and Trump. Each leader has hawks in his country opposing Détente 2.0. Trump's are headquartered in the "Think" Tanks, the Dem Party Elite, the Main Stream Media, the Military Industrial Congressional Complex and the punditry associated with them all. Just as important is Israel which does not want peace with Iran, an ally of Russia. And unfortunately the space between the ears of virtually every US politician, with the exception of a few libertarians, is Israeli occupied territory, and its US Amen Corner stands careful watch over this prized conquest. The issue of Iran is therefore the Achilles heel of the struggle for Détente 2.0.

But in the midst of all the commotion let us not forget the stakes. According to the Stockholm International Peace and Research Institute, the US and Russia each have about 6500 - 7000 nuclear warheads with over 1600 on each side "deployed," that is placed on missiles or located on bases with operational forces. These are ready to go at a moment's notice and cause suffering of a sort never before seen in human history, with the death of billions and perhaps the end of all human life, as Daniel Ellsberg informs us in chilling detail in The Doomsday Machine: Confessions of a Nuclear War Planner. The carpings of our hawks are as nothing compared to the opportunity to move out from under this nuclear cloud.

If this essay serves any purpose, it is to call more attention to the dangerous atmosphere being created by our media, the Dem pols and our "opinion shapers" in the lead up to the summit. A plan of action is in order. Complain like hell to every media outlet guilty of this disgraceful behavior. It only takes an email and the lords of the media, ever concerned about their bottom line, count them. Same with our hawkish pols.

And afterwards if the Summit does not take us in the direction of peace, complain like hell to the White House. But if the outcome of the Summit inches us away from Armageddon and toward Detente, as did the Singapore summit, have at the naysayers - they are standing in the way of our survival. And likewise praise to the skies a positive outcome. It is this attitude that the press is trying to prevent. Let them not instill in the populace a hatred of Trump that is stronger than the hatred of war.


Glenn Greenwald (vs Joe Cirincione) on DemocracyNow! - Helsinki: 16.Jul.2018 19:30

DemocracyNow!

GLENN GREENWALD: I continue to be incredibly frustrated by the claim that we hear over and over, and that we just heard from Joe, that Donald Trump does everything that Vladimir Putin wants, and that if he were a paid agent of the Russian government, there'd be—he would be doing nothing different. I just went through the entire list of actions that Donald Trump has taken and statements that he has made that are legitimately adverse to the interest of the Russian government, that Barack Obama specifically refused to do, despite bipartisan demands that he do them, exactly because he didn't want to provoke more tensions between the United States and Russia. Sending lethal arms to Ukraine, bordering Russia, is a really serious adverse action against the interest of the Russian government. Bombing the Assad regime is, as well. Denouncing one of the most critical projects that the Russian government has, which is the pipeline to sell huge amounts of gas and oil to Germany, is, as well. So is expelling Russian diplomats and imposing serious sanctions on oligarchs that are close to the Putin regime.

You can go down the list, over and over and over, in the 18 months that he's been in office, and see all the things that Donald Trump has done that is adverse, in serious ways, to the interests of Vladimir Putin, including ones that President Obama refused to do. So, this film, this movie fairytale, that I know is really exciting—it's like international intrigue and blackmail, like the Russians have something over Trump; it's like a Manchurian candidate; it's from like the 1970s thrillers that we all watched—is inane—you know, with all due respect to Joe. I mean, it's—but it's in the climate, because it's so contrary to what it is that we're seeing. Now, this idea of meeting alone with Vladimir Putin, the only way that you would find that concerning is if you believed all that.

Now, the reality is there is this really interesting dynamic, which is that President Trump is surrounded by a lot of traditional Republican foreign policy advisers, who have always been extremely hawkish on Russia. Amy mentioned earlier the fact that his own director of national intelligence, Dan Coats, who's a far-right Republican, and therefore extremely hawkish on Russia, is saying all kinds of things about how Russia needs to be treated more belligerently. So he's surrounded by people who are trying to prevent him from doing what he, as the elected president, wants to do and believes we should do, which is forge better relations with Russia. And so, that's why he wants to meet alone with Putin, because he thinks that a personal relationship with Putin, of the kind that presidents have always tried to establish with foreign leaders, is something that will be in the interest of the policies that he wants to pursue. So, I think that, you know, if we continue on with this kind of evidence-free fairytale that Russia has installed a Manchurian candidate in Washington and is controlling the strings of the U.S. government, as exciting as that is to believe, I think our discourse is going to continue to go wildly off base.

As far as the indictments from Mueller are concerned, it's certainly the most specific accounting yet that we've gotten of what the U.S. government claims the Russian government did in 2016. But it's extremely important to remember what every first-year law student will tell you, which is that an indictment is nothing more than the assertions of a prosecutor unaccompanied by evidence. The evidence won't be presented until a trial or until Robert Mueller actually issues a report to Congress. And so, I would certainly hope that we are not at the point, which I think we seem to be at, where we are now back to believing that when the CIA makes statements and assertions and accusations, or when prosecutors make statements and assertions and accusations, unaccompanied by evidence that we can actually evaluate, that we're simply going to believe those accusations on faith, especially when the accusations come from George W. Bush's former FBI Director Robert Mueller, who repeatedly lied to Congress about Iraq and a whole variety of other issues. So, I think there we need some skepticism. But even if the Russians did everything that Robert Mueller claims in that indictment that they did, in the scheme of what the U.S. and the Russians do to one another and other countries, I think to say that this is somehow something that we should treat as a grave threat, that should mean that we don't talk to them or that we treat them as an enemy, is really irrational and really quite dangerous.


____________


Greenwald vs. Cirincione on Helsinki Summit — Part 1 :
 http://www.democracynow.org/2018/7/16/debate_is_trump_putin_summit_a_danger

Greenwald vs. Cirincione on Helsinki Summit — Part 2 :
 http://www.democracynow.org/2018/7/16/part_2_debate_on_russian_meddling

"the discredited Skripal case" 16.Jul.2018 20:24

Clyde

hahah ok buddy. You keep telling yourself that.

Also, try reading the indictment involving the DNC hack if you still think there is a lack of evidence. Or just keep your head buried in the sand. Either way.

Indictment of 12 Russians: Under the Shiny Wrapping, a Political Act 16.Jul.2018 20:58

Scott Ritter

Jul 15, 2018

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U.S. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, above, released the 29-page indictment of 12 Russians days before President Trump was due to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin. (Internet Education Foundation / CC BY 2.0)
---

With great fanfare, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein on Friday released a 29-page indictment, a byproduct of the ongoing investigation by special counsel Robert Mueller into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. Ostensibly, this indictment cemented the government's case against the Russians and punched a hole in the arguments of those, like President Trump, who have been labeling Mueller's investigation a "witch hunt." This, of course, is precisely what Rosenstein and Mueller hoped to achieve through their carefully timed, and even more carefully scripted, indictment.

The indictment was made public at a time when the FBI is under increasing scrutiny for the appearance of strong anti-Trump bias on the part of some of its senior agents. This purported bias in turn generated rational concerns on the part of the president's supporters that it possibly influenced decisions related to investigations being conducted by the FBI into allegations of collusion between persons affiliated with the campaign of then-Republican candidate Trump and the Russian government. The goal of this alleged collusion was to interfere in the American electoral processes and confer Trump an advantage against his Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton.

It also comes on the heels of a concerted effort on the part of the president and his political supporters to denigrate the investigation of Mueller and, by extension, the judgment and character of Rosenstein, who, since the recusal of Attorney General Jeff Sessions from the Russian investigation, has been giving Mueller his marching orders. Indeed, several conservative members of the House of Representatives are mulling the impeachment of Rosenstein, claiming he is refusing to cooperate with Congress by denying them access to documents related to the investigation that certain members of Congress, at least, deem relevant to their constitutionally mandated oversight function.

While the impeachment of Rosenstein is highly unlikely and the likelihood of the FBI being found guilty of its investigations being corrupted by individual bias is equally slim, in the world of politics, perception creates its own reality and the Mueller investigation had been taking a public beating for some time. By releasing an indictment predicated upon the operating assertion that 12 named Russian military intelligence officers orchestrated a series of cyberattacks that resulted in information being stolen from computer servers belonging to the Democratic Party, and then facilitated the release of this information in a manner designed to do damage to the candidacy of Clinton, Rosenstein sought to silence once and for all the voices that have attacked him, along with the Department of Justice, the FBI and the Mueller investigation, as a participant in a partisan plot against the president.

There is one major problem with the indictment, however: It doesn't prove that which it asserts. True, it provides a compelling narrative that reads like a spy novel, and there is no doubt in my mind that many of the technical details related to the timing and functioning of the malware described within are accurate. But the leap of logic that takes the reader from the inner workings of the servers of the Democratic Party to the offices of Russian intelligence officers in Moscow is not backed up by anything that demonstrates how these connections were made.

That's the point of an indictment, however—it doesn't exist to provide evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, but rather to provide only enough information to demonstrate probable cause. No one would, or could, be convicted at trial from the information contained in the indictment alone. For that to happen, the government would have to produce the specific evidence linking the hacks to the named Russians, and provide details on how this evidence was collected, and by whom. In short, the government would have to be willing to reveal some of the most sensitive sources and methods of intelligence collection by the U.S. intelligence community and expose, and therefore ruin, the careers of those who collected this information. This is something the government has never been willing to do, and there is much doubt that if, for some odd reason, the Russians agreed to send one or more of these named intelligence officers to the United States to answer the indictment, this indictment would ever go to trial. It simply couldn't survive the discovery to which any competent defense would subject the government's assertions.

Robert Mueller knew this when he drafted the indictment, and Rob Rosenstein knew this when he presented it to the public. The assertions set forth in the indictment, while cloaked in the trappings of American justice, have nothing to do with actual justice or the rule of law; they cannot, and will never, be proved in a court of law. However, by releasing them in a manner that suggests that the government is willing to proceed to trial, a perception is created that implies that they can withstand the scrutiny necessary to prevail at trial.

And as we know, perception is its own reality.

Despite Rosenstein's assertions to the contrary, the decision to release the indictment of the 12 named Russian military intelligence officers was an act of partisan warfare designed to tip the scale of public opinion against the supporters of President Trump, and in favor of those who oppose him politically, Democrat and Republican alike. Based upon the media coverage since Rosenstein's press conference, it appears that in this he has been wildly successful.

But is the indictment factually correct? The biggest clue that Mueller and Rosenstein have crafted a criminal espionage narrative from whole cloth comes from none other than the very intelligence agency whose work would preclude Rosenstein's indictment from ever going to trial: the National Security Agency. In June 2017 the online investigative journal The Intercept referenced a highly classified document from the NSA titled "Spear-Phishing Campaign TTPs Used Against U.S. And Foreign Government Political Entities." It's a highly technical document, derived from collection sources and methods the NSA has classified at the Top Secret/SI (i.e., Special Intelligence) level. This document was meant for internal consumption, not public release. As such, the drafters could be honest about what they knew and what they didn't know—unlike those in the Mueller investigation who drafted the aforementioned indictment.

A cursory comparison of the leaked NSA document and the indictment presented by Rosenstein suggests that the events described in Count 11 of the indictment pertaining to an effort to penetrate state and county election offices responsible for administering the 2016 U.S. presidential election are precisely the events captured in the NSA document. While the indictment links the identity of a named Russian intelligence officer, Anatoliy Sergeyevich Kovalev, to specific actions detailed therein, the NSA document is much more circumspect. In a diagram supporting the text report, the NSA document specifically states that the organizational ties between the unnamed operators involved in the actions described and an organizational entity, Unit 74455, affiliated with Russian military intelligence is a product of the judgment of an analyst and not fact.

If we take this piece of information to its logical conclusion, then the Mueller indictment has taken detailed data related to hacking operations directed against various American political entities and shoehorned it into what amounts to little more than the organizational chart of a military intelligence unit assessed—but not known—to have overseen the operations described. This is a far cry from the kind of incontrovertible proof that Mueller's team suggests exists to support its indictment of the 12 named Russian intelligence officers.

If this is indeed the case, then the indictment, as presented, is a politically motivated fraud. Mueller doesn't know the identities of those involved in the hacking operations he describes—because the intelligence analysts who put the case together don't know those names. If this case were to go to trial, the indictment would be dismissed in the preliminary hearing phase for insufficient evidence, even if the government were willing to lay out the totality of its case—which, because of classification reasons, it would never do.

But the purpose of the indictment wasn't to bring to justice the perpetrators of a crime against the American people; it was to manipulate public opinion.

And therein lies the rub.

The timing of the release of the Mueller indictment unleashed a storm of political backlash directed at President Trump, and specifically at his scheduled July 16 summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki. This summit was never popular with the president's political opponents, given the current state of affairs between Russia and the U.S., dominated as they are by events in Syria and Ukraine, perceived Russian threats against the northern flank of NATO, allegations of election meddling in the U.S. and Europe, and Russia's nuclear arsenal. On that last point, critics claim Russia's arsenal is irresponsibly expanding, operated in violation of existing arms control agreements, and is being used to underpin foreign policy objectives through the use of nuclear blackmail.

President Trump has publicly stated that it is his fervent desire that relations with Russia can be improved and that he views the Helsinki summit as an appropriate venue for initiating a process that could facilitate such an outcome. It is the president's sole prerogative to formulate and implement foreign and national security policy on behalf of the American people. While his political critics are free to criticize this policy, they cannot undermine it without running afoul of sedition laws.

Rosenstein, by the timing and content of the indictment he publicly released Friday, committed an act that undermined the president of the United States' ability to conduct critical affairs of state—in this case, a summit with a foreign leader the outcome of which could impact global nuclear nonproliferation policy. The hue and cry among the president's political foes for him to cancel the summit with Putin—or, failing that, to use the summit to confront the Russian leader with the indictment—is a direct result of Rosenstein's decision to release the Mueller indictment when he did and how he did. Through its content, the indictment was designed to shape public opinion against Russia.

This indictment, by any other name, is a political act, and should be treated as such by the American people and the media.


Skripal case developments further discredit British government lies 16.Jul.2018 21:00

By Simon Whelan

23 April 2018

The UK government responds to each exposure of its fabrications regarding the Skripal affair by concocting and promoting additional ones. Any evidence or argument that points to the ludicrous nature of the official line is denounced as the work of a dupe or a traitor.

On March 4, Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, were taken to hospital after being found unconscious on a bench in Salisbury. They have now recovered, with Yulia already discharged from hospital before being spirited away to a secret location, despite having supposedly been poisoned with one of the most fatal military-grade nerve agents.

Without revealing any evidence, Britain accused Russia of being responsible for an "attempted murder." While failing to provide any convincing explanation as to why Russia would target a superannuated ex-spy and his daughter, the resulting hysterical anti-Russian campaign played a critical role in preparing the US, British and French bombing of Syria.

As the Skripal campaign unravelled, the British authorities have stepped up their claims. At an emergency meeting of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) on April 18, British ambassador to the OPCW, Peter Wilson, accused Russia of "multiple narratives" and of having "no credibility."

Wilson demanded that Russia "end its offensive chemical weapons programme" and "declare its programme of novichoks." He accused Moscow of a "brazen disinformation campaign" to "attack the reputation and expertise of the OPCW" and "distract and brazenly misrepresent facts."

The May government continues to refuse to adhere to basic international standards in depriving Russia of any information about the investigation into how two of its citizens became ill.

This deliberate ratcheting up of tensions on the part of the UK authorities is aimed at diverting from its own campaign of disinformation, misrepresentation and outright lies. Central to this has been the willingness of the official media to regurgitate without hesitation, the latest propaganda from the government, intelligence agencies and police.

The summary findings of the OPCW made no mention of novichok —the Russian name for a family of nerve agents whose incessant repetition is meant to provide irrefutable proof of Moscow's involvement. Nor did it mention Russia. The one time the OPCW referenced a "nerve agent," it was prefaced with the caveat "allegedly." The term used throughout is "toxic chemical."

The OPCW report was thrown even further into question by Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. The Swiss state Spiez Laboratory had conducted tests, Lavrov said, and contrary to claims that the Skripals were poisoned by a novichok nerve agent, it found the "substance used on Sergei Skripal was an agent called BZ" ( BZ or 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate).

BZ is a hallucinogenic incapacitating agent that afflicts both the peripheral and central nervous systems. Lavrov said this information was not included in the OPCW report. The OPCW subsequently rebutted Lavrov's claim, asserting the non-presence of BZ and its precursors in the March 23 blood samples taken from the Skripals.

Russia has demanded full disclosure of all information related to the Skripal case. The full OPCW report was made available to all governments who are signatories to the Chemical Weapons Convention. There is no prohibition on any of those governments from publishing the full report or parts thereof.

If Lavrov's statement accurately reflects the scientific findings and if the Skripals encountered BZ in some form, this could account for both the state in which they were discovered on March 4, and the fact that they have now recovered. It would also seem to explain Yulia's disorientation, which she mentioned in a statement, supposedly issued on her behalf by the Metropolitan Police.

On Saturday, the Russian Embassy in London said it asked the UK government to explain a statement from private individuals as to the origins of claims they made about the case. The Embassy's press secretary said, "Yesterday we learned from the BBC that the self-proclaimed inventor of the so-called 'Novichok' Mr Vladimir Uglev was sure that the Skripals had been poisoned with A-234 [another name for novichok]. He comes to this conclusion 'from all the spectrum data [he] was sent recently'... This is quite an extraordinary statement. It essentially means that a private citizen has been provided with the information that the Russian side has not been able to obtain from the British authorities for weeks."

The Embassy also pointed out that Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, the former commanding officer of the UK's chemical regiment, had made statements attributing blame to Russia based on access to "intelligence data."

"Of course, these allegations cannot be verified. But if we are to believe them, it looks like the British authorities share highly confidential data with private individuals. This is another gross violation of the OPCW rules. We have asked the FCO [Foreign and Commonwealth Office] to confirm or deny this, and to provide us access to the files that these gentlemen refer to."

The contradictions continue to mount. On April 17, the UK government's Department of Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (Defra) announced that the nerve agent supposedly used to poison the Skripals was delivered "in a liquid form," with only "a very small amount" used.

Only days earlier, police said the nerve agent had been deployed by smearing it on the front door handle of Sergei's house. No explanation was offered as to how this amateurish and unsophisticated ruse remained undiscovered for weeks or why no one other than the Skripals and a police officer had been apparently affected.

But the claims about front door handles and "liquid form delivery" are contradicted by the OPCW report summary on the case, which notes that there were no additives in the substance they analysed—which would have been necessary for it to adhere to the Skripal's front door.

More inconsistencies are revealed in the details of the cleaning of nine sites in Salisbury on Saturday to supposedly decontaminate them. There is no explanation as to why this is taking place six weeks after the Skripals were found. Stories in the media of how the deadly poison was washed off the Skripals' door and diluted by the rain—just another of the implausible attempts to explain how the Skripals managed to survive a potentially deadly attack—have been shelved.

Now it is claimed that, far from it being diluted, there are potentially still "toxic" levels of the poison in isolated "hot spots." The government has mobilized 200 military personnel, who will be involved in a "decontamination" operation that could last months.

Moving swiftly over to the new narrative, the BBC reported, "The nerve agent does not evaporate or disappear over time, experts have said, and intense cleaning with caustic chemicals is required to get rid of it."

This was after Defra's chief scientific adviser, Ian Boyd, had told a public meeting that the nerve agent remained in high concentrations in "very specific locations" and could still be harmful. However, Boyd's remark was contradicted by a Defra spokesperson who insisted that the city "is safe for residents and visitors."

Residents have complained about the mixed messages. Although the government was quick to claim that a military nerve agent had been used against the Skripals, it was almost a week before Public Health Britain issued any safety advice to those who had visited the pub or the restaurant that the Skripals had visited. Even then Public Health England stated only that people who had visited those places should wash their clothes and merely "[w]ipe personal items such as phones, handbags and other electronic items with cleansing or baby wipes and dispose of the wipes in the bin (ordinary domestic waste disposal)."


keep the drivel coming 16.Jul.2018 21:57

Clyde

any more fluff pieces? Maybe something from Counterpunch to tell us what a great guy Putin is and how Trump is really just working hard for world peace?

What a joke.

is that you, 'Clyde'? 16.Jul.2018 22:22

_

 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/07/436412.shtml

same 'Clyde' who, on ^ this ^ thread was willing to 'reasonably discuss' the vagaries of Mueller's investigation?

Scott Ritter is not "drivel" and nothing the U.S. Justice Department has produced (you agreed already, ^ there) is likely to produce any result. Political kabuki.


anyway Clyde this is why on the ^ other topic thread (where you "behaved reasonably") I will forever be Your-Pals-And-You's adversary.

the point being that the U.S. corporate mass media-sponsored, U.S. intelligence community-sponsored, "opposition"-[both GOP+Dems here...]party-sponsored, and AnyPerson-Afflicted-With-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-adhered-to kerfuffle, over Trump and Poootiiin smooching each other is a bunch of

ABSOLUTE HOT-AIR GARBAGE just like Clyde and his ilk.





















_____________



Helsinki: What did Trump want from Putin, really?
by Denis Rancourt / July 16th, 2018
 http://dissidentvoice.org/2018/07/helsinki-what-did-trump-want-from-putin-really/

Election interference, whether true or not, is just an ancillary USA domestic matter. Everyone knows it's bullshit. Putin did not write the Clinton emails. Democracies claim to want "transparency".


_____________



Helsinki Theatrics: Trump meets Putin
by Binoy Kampmark
 http://dissidentvoice.org/2018/07/helsinki-theatrics-trump-meets-putin/

Policy establishment wonks former and current screamed treason. Brennan, who has made it a habit to attack the elected head of his country, shows the yawning and disconcerting gap between Trump the populist and the intelligence services who seem to, in some quarters, fantasise about a coup d'état. "Donald Trump's press conference in Helsinki," came Brennan's assessment, "rises to and exceeds the threshold of 'high crimes and misdemeanours'." Casting the pale light on Trump in such a way - that such conduct was "nothing short of treasonous" - feeds the desperate drive for impeachment.

Some of the responses have been unmoored from any sense of proportion. "I'm ready to call this the darkest hour in the history of the American presidency," tweeted a despairing Garry Kasparov, a person who has vainly railed against the Putin apparatus for years. "Let me know if you can think of any competition."

The contenders are surely more plentiful than Kasparov admits; the corruption of Watergate, the inglorious elections that gave two terms of the Bush administration; decisions made to expand warrantless surveillance and the catastrophic invasion of Iraq in 2003 - all these provide concrete examples of ruination and battering that have given us the shoddy Republic we have today. The Trump-Putin show is simply that, a boys' own gathering where dreams and delusions can be exchanged with minimal impact. Showing fury and frothing rage at such acts is precisely what the Trump complex feeds off, drawing in critics and supporters alike.

hot air? 16.Jul.2018 22:43

Clyde

There is nothing more "hot air" than taking the stance that Skripal was actually poisoned by the Brits (hey, maybe Litvinenko too!), Mueller is making stuff up out of "whole cloth", the statements of the entire intelligence community is all a huge conspiracy, the DNC hacks were actually some inside job, and that somehow EVERYONE is trying to take down Trump and sabotage his presidency. To actually believe that level of conspiracy requires an infantile level of understanding about politics and probably revolves around "Deep state" fantasy that is being pushed by Greenwald, Hannity and other useful idiots.

I'm willing to wait for what Mueller ends up finding, but that doesn't mean I'll entertain nonsense like what we're seeing above in the meantime.

And we still need to settle on odds.

lol, wtf 'Clyde' ?! — 16.Jul.2018 23:38

_

[QUOTE :]
"Skripal was actually poisoned by the Brits"

- personally I don't give a shit about the Skripal case, it was *you* who brought it up. (as a distraction, natch)

[QUOTE :]
"Mueller is making stuff up out of "whole cloth"

- who said ^ that?

Mueller is not to be trusted (or at least, knowing his origins-allegiances he can be "trusted" as much as the likes of Comey).
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/04/435730.shtml

In any case, it will be the Justice Dept. that is somehow able to concoct legally-actionable trial proceedings out of any of this which thus far it has not been and seems unable to (especially with regard to Trump-as-President which was purportedly the Ab Initio objective). Mueller is not the point and will end up forgotten and (perhaps??) disgraced with his Nothingburger "investigation".


[QUOTE :]
"the DNC hacks were actually some inside job"

- First of all the DNC wasn't "hacked":
Material was stolen from the DNC servers and then revealed to the world at large. Precisely How And Via Whom that occurred remains to be fully and correctly proven.
There is still zero evidence of *what* kind of "job" this actually was. It remains entirely possible that a person within the DNC itself could have been the 'operator' of that 'operation'.
(as with for example, Pearl Harbor and Gulf of Tonkin) We may end up finding out, that what many people "thought it was", actually wasn't.


[QUOTE :]
" To actually believe that level of conspiracy requires an infantile level of understanding about politics"

- (wtf ?! are you talking about) Did you mean, perhaps the U.S. corporate mass media sources subscribed to by tens, even hundreds of millions of viewers/readers who insist :
"Trump Has Been A Russian Asset Since 1987"
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/07/436412.shtml

Democratic party and U.S. corporate media have drummed up (as tediously explained on the other thread...)
all of this "Trump Russia" bandwidth-waste.

[QUOTE :]
"Deep state" fantasy that is being pushed by Greenwald, Hannity"

- (wtf again) "Deep state" is the phrase coined by Trump himself. Where does Glenn Greenwald come in, and how exactly would he comport with Sean Hannity?
Greenwald (for example, YOU brought him up CLYDE) is one attempting to inject reason and common sense to the Hysterics displayed by U.S. corporate mass media, Democrats:
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/02/435490.shtml
 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/07/436406.shtml

the "deep state" conspiratards are people who think that 'The Swamp' is out to "strangle the Constitution". It's a RIGHT WING delusion.
Problem is though, there is in fact a 'deep state' (*of sorts*....) comprised of the Iron Triangle (Pentagon, intelligence community, other parts of the U.S. government which continue their agendas and operations independent of political adminstrations)
...... but it isn't, the "Deep state" hysteria of the post-2016 variety which is Blogged, Tweeted, Facebooked ad infinitum by Pepsi vs Coke "political" warriors online each day. "Deep state" has no more meaning than "Trump = Russian agent" or any of the other Trump Derangement Syndrome drivel.










You, 'Clyde' have ZERO understanding of 21st century politics, the Internet, basics of economics (I'm going to bet Trump is not removed from office but certainly not with the likes of you), or science / technology.


You're an uneducated, untrained, poorly raised, malsocialized dolt.


You're beyond a joke.
You, Clyde are a ****ing Moon-Truther ("Trump dis, Trump dat, wait for Mueller blah-de-blah") sucking on U.S. corporate mass media ***k.

Get some psychiatric help.


I hope you die in a fire 'Clyde'. **** YOU!

Welcome Infant "Clyde" 17.Jul.2018 00:04

The Red 'X' Society

They keep the secret by employing prisoners, prostitutes and felons.

What would you trade for your freedom?

Listen to President after President Warning you. Wake up. Hit yourself in the head for letting them stir up your lives.

President Dwight D. Eisenhower
 https://youtu.be/Gg-jvHynP9Y

President John F. Kennedy
 https://youtu.be/xhZk8ronces

President Richard M. Nixon
 https://youtu.be/PdnvhfNN8D8

aww come on man 17.Jul.2018 00:53

Clyde

Don't be like that. I even watched the roger stone documentary you suggested.

clyde 17.Jul.2018 00:57

rAT

Clyde is the most appalling thing I've ever seen on this site.

Trump Trolls and An Old Troll 17.Jul.2018 01:07

rAT

The Walsh hit piece is pure dog shit. Trump is a treasonous felon. Putin is a thug. Clyde is faking concern. He's taking a break from trying to debunk 911 truth seekers, his main gig. And who am I really? Hahahah that's a good one from a guy who just showed up out of nowhere with his pro-Trump bullshit and Totalitarian sympathies. Being wordy doesn't make up for the lack of true patriotism the GOP has decided to enshrine. Watch them dive off the sinking ship as the elections approach. Hahahaha The harder they come the harder they fall. I'll take Pussy Riot over Vlad the Impaler's shifty bullshit any day. Are they still in Putin's new Gulag?

same guy different by-lines 17.Jul.2018 01:13

rAT

These three long posts all seem to be written by the same TROLL. Simon Scott Walsh. Who is he REALLY?

RE: "Trump is a treasonous felon" — nice to see ya back, rAT! 17.Jul.2018 01:39

_

where exactly was Donald Trump convicted of a felony?
Please produce evidence IMMEDIATELY.

(as mentioned on another topic  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/07/436451.shtml#453275 )
Trump is not the U.S. government (or its partner in crime, corporate mass media). He just happens to be the one occupying, momentarily, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

The mass murdering genocidal U.S. government will continue — no matter who occupies 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue — until its basic institutions which oppress its constituent citizens are removed: IRS, 'Federal' Reserve (<-- not actually "government" but an insidious cabal of banks), the Pentagon Iron Triangle, U.S. corporate-plutocrat mass media etc.

your Trump Derangement Syndrome [ ***** SEE BELOW ***** ] ain't healthy, rAT.


[QUOTE]:
"Putin is a thug."

- Agreed. Absolutely.

But why worry about Putin? What have the Russians, or the Putin regime, actually done to you personally; how have they affected your personal day-to-day life in the U.S. empire (presuming that is within which you reside...)?

How is incessant kvetching about Vlad the Imp, a productive use of your time? I mean, I understand the Pussy Riot type of enraged protest, but they're Russian — you're not.



[QUOTE]:
"Watch them dive off the sinking ship as the elections approach."

- You mean the Democrats, right? After the "Trump Has Been A Russian Asset Since 1987" campaign backfires?
Face it, rAT :
"Russia Russia" is (not only a BAT SHIT CRAZY Moon-Truther Conspiracy Theory but also) not something to hitch yer wagon to.



[QUOTE]:
"guy who just showed up out of nowhere with his pro-Trump bullshit and Totalitarian sympathies"

- I'm not "pro Trump" ("out of nowhere", no... I have posted many informative articles to PDX IMC in the past 2 years regarding Trump; mostly regarding *reactions* to Trump having defeated Hillary Clinton...)

But there again, rAT is your Trump Derangement Syndrome rearing its ugly head.
as Glenn Greenwald (and others) have cogently pointed out it's not healthy for you; to center all Thought And Discourse around 'Trump'.

RE: "Totalitarian sympathies" —
I am the polar opposite, being 100% opposed to All Forms of authoritarianism and Statism.
rAT, I might have some bad opinions about you but I would never go so far as to call you 'pro-Totalitarian'...
rAT, ^ this isn't how you want to spend your existence
rAT, ^ this isn't how you want to spend your existence

U.S. DOJ releases Carter Page FISA application documents — 22.Jul.2018 02:49

_

Haven't gone through all of it yet, and a huge amount is Blacked-out / Redacted but it confirms a number of previously-known and reported aspects of the application documents.

A disturbing amount of news stories are provided as actual 'evidence' in the FISA application. The journalists' news stories, refer to *each other* as corroboration.

i.e. Circular story telling. Which the FBI rubber-stamps upon collation. Like this —


FBI: Hey reporter person, guess what, we uh, can't speak on the record but let's just say Trump/Russia via Carter Page. Just trust me...

2 weeks later —

FBI: Holy shit, reporter person has a news article on that same thing we were talking about! It must be for reals! We better do something. Call reporter person #2 up and ask them if they know anything about what reporter #1 wrote about...

Another 2 weeks later —

FBI: OMG! Reporter person #2 is writing about the thing we talked to them about because of reporter person #1. This is insane... the story is being reported by two reporters now... we don't even have to investigate anymore this stuff is totally true. Better screenshot the page and include it in the warrant...



Oh, and a brief recap of how the "Piss" stuff all began :

* > 4chan's /pol/ mailed an imaginatively fabricated story to anti-Trump pundit Rick Wilson (who happened to have been active on Reddit and has a piss fetish) about Trump "making people piss on a bed Obama slept in"

* > Wilson thought this was actually real and gave it to the Central Intelligence Agency

* > CIA put this into their official classified intelligence report on Russian involvement in the 2016 election

* > Trump and Obama, each have both read the "piss on a bed" story

* > the CIA concluded that the Russians planned to blackmail trump with the 100% fabricated "piss" story

p.s. and the *REASON* for the FISA app, and Special Counsel? — 22.Jul.2018 03:00

_

the Obama / Clinton / DOJ / U.S. intelligence community / RNC-DNC / U.S. corporate mass media / NeoCon establishment,

was *counting* on Hillary beating the pants off of Trump in November 2016.


problem is: She didn't.

if Clinton had won, none of the paper thin rational and justifications and abuses of U.S. National Security apparatus would've seen the light of day. Trump and anyone in his orbit would've been charged with all kinds of Federal violations (far beyond e.g. what Flynn, or even Manafort have seen thus far).

All this was set up in order to 100% grind Trump et al. into dust, after the assured Hillary victory.

the Special Counsel in particular gave them the opportunity to fund mountains of opposition research with every US Gov resource including the NSA. (if Hillary were to have been victorious) The SC allowed them punish every person who was involved in getting Trump in office (along with right wing organizations e.g. the NRA and others that endorsed Trump). And, it allows them hand out immunity to every D.C. establishment figure who needs it, like the (John & Tony) Podestas.

post-FISA application [albeit redacted] release, Here is What We Know — 22.Jul.2018 03:41

_

- FBI relied on Steele/Fusion GPS to obtain the FISA warrant (we know <---this)

- FBI downplayed the fact that Candidate #2 (i.e. Clinton) paid for Fusion/Steele because Steele is totally, like 'honest' dude! (we also knew this from "the memo")

- FBI more or less downplayed Carter Page's aid in convicting Russian spies

- U.S. corporate mass media worked with the FBI to create the story from "another source" [^^see couple posts up] and this was used by the FBI to obtain the FISA warrant

- The FISC seems all too trusting of top leadership of the FBI/DOJ; and it seems far too easy to crawl up someone's ass with a Title I FISA warrant

- Four different FISC judges signed off; the first judge to sign off, Rosemary Collyer, also wrote the ruling on the FISA abuse of the FBI months later (April 2017)

- Any time Page contacted the FBI/DOJ to ask WhatTheF*** was going on with news reports about him,the FBI used this as evidence in the application that he was part of muh-Russia

- It is way too easy to obtain a FISA warrant; and the expectation appeared to be that these organizations (FBI/DOJ) would never lie or fabricate something

- This is not the first time they've gotten a FISA on junk information take that to the bank

- This was also to help cover up previous unwarranted spying operation in violation of the law that may have been revealed with a Trump win

i love it 22.Jul.2018 10:13

Clyde

you think the Trump-Russia thing is a conspiracy, so you've invented an even bigger conspiracy to explain it.

btw, the supposed "4chan origin of the pee story" is nonsense, and I'm surprised you didn't pick that up. These are the same idiots who craft conspiracies out of thin air, a la pizzagate.

 https://gizmodo.com/4chan-idiots-claim-they-invented-the-trump-piss-report-1791067589


Did rAT hack your account? You need a nap and some vitamins little buddy.

hey Clyde: "how frightened men on the internet calm their nerves." 22.Jul.2018 15:38

_

You have any comments on the FISA documents?

- FBI relied on Steele/Fusion GPS to obtain the FISA warrant (we know <---this)

- FBI downplayed the fact that Candidate #2 (i.e. Clinton) paid for Fusion/Steele because Steele is totally, like 'honest' dude! (we also knew this from "the memo")

- FBI more or less downplayed Carter Page's aid in convicting Russian spies

- U.S. corporate mass media worked with the FBI to create the story from "another source" [^^see couple posts up] and this was used by the FBI to obtain the FISA warrant

- The FISC seems all too trusting of top leadership of the FBI/DOJ; and it seems far too easy to crawl up someone's ass with a Title I FISA warrant

- Four different FISC judges signed off; the first judge to sign off, Rosemary Collyer, also wrote the ruling on the FISA abuse of the FBI months later (April 2017)

- Any time Page contacted the FBI/DOJ to ask WhatTheF*** was going on with news reports about him,the FBI used this as evidence in the application that he was part of muh-Russia

- It is way too easy to obtain a FISA warrant; and the expectation appeared to be that these organizations (FBI/DOJ) would never lie or fabricate something

- This is not the first time they've gotten a FISA on junk information (take that to the bank)

- This was also to help cover up previous unwarranted spying operations in violation of the law that may have been revealed with a Trump win

Clyde is shaking in his widdle boots

'Gizmodo' is owned by Univision, associated with 'The Onion' 22.Jul.2018 15:47

.

"Univision to Buy Gawker Media for $135M". The Hollywood Reporter.
On July 10, 2018, Univision announced that it would "explore" the option of selling all of the Gizmodo Media Group and Onion Inc. websites under its ownership.

lol Clyde = Gizmodo as "credible" source

Rick Wilson, neocon Bill Kristol made 'Never Trump' CIA operative Evan McMullin 22.Jul.2018 16:02

_

as an "independent" candidate for the GOP to sabotage Trump's campaign after he'd obtained the Republican nomination.

Of course it (along with other millions $$$ spent on the Republican side of "I'm With Her") didn't work.

hey 'Clyde' —
hey 'Clyde' —

doubtful 22.Jul.2018 16:22

Clyde

You can ignore the discussion at Gizmodo and find the same info elsewhere if you'd prefer. I doubt you'll look into it as it doesn't play well with your narrative, but that has nothing to do with me.

Your entire theory hinges on the fact that somehow, after decades of animosity, the intelligence community decided to play on the same team with the media and the political left. The odds of that happening are astronomically small. You know that.

The idea that this entire thing hinges on Steele/Fusion GPS also ignores the fact that Papadapoulos was already under investigation before any of this took place. The claim of political bias doesn't stand up to basic scrutiny.

I don't know why you think my nerves are anything but calm. We're still waiting for more indictments to come down the chute. Could be a few more, could be a ton. The only people who seem to be sweating are the folks still doing cartwheels trying to spin this all in Trump's favor somehow.

btw 22.Jul.2018 16:26

Clyde

That Roger stone documentary was good. It was nuts, but it was good. I would expect nothing less than nuts from a guy with a nixon tat on his back.

"still waiting for more indictments" — Till The Cows Come Home. 22.Jul.2018 23:36

_

glad you enjoyed the Stone documentary. (yes; to be expected.... from a dude with Nixon tatted on his own back) He was Alex Jones before there was AJ; but also much more than just an AJ-style media propagandist. A self-hagiographizing operative / operator, perhaps.


( "entire thing hinges on Steele/Fusion GPS" <— No, No It Doesn't and No, No That Isn't What I Said )
what you aren't comprehending here Clyde,

is that the entire SC investigation, FISA applications, dossier were fully predicated on a Hillary 2016 victory (after which her newfound regime would have completed the purge).

This isn't a 'conspiracy', it's simple procedural execution — and *all* of it makes perfect logical and political sense.

I have no dog in this fight; Trump can sink or swim on his own (..... I'm amused at people who have political or ideological fealty towards DT; the dude's a Billionaire who doesn't give a **** about being in the White House — which he can leave of his own volition any old time he wants and still return to his real estate empire, despite all his "I Love America" / "I love Americans" rhetoric — nor does he have to give a **** about any of his 'fans' political-or-Elswhere-In-The-Mediasphere.... don't care what happens to him and neither should I. Trump feeds Trump only, from his Twitter feed on down...)

Fact remains though: NOBODY (--> Obama / Clinton / DOJ / U.S. intelligence community / RNC-DNC / U.S. corporate mass media / NeoCon establishment) wanted Trump to win in 2016.

All stacked against him, and favored Hillary. He wasn't supposed to win (anyone who was 'sane', knew that, right up until 8th November 2016) and she wasn't supposed to lose. That isn't how it was supposed to go down — at all.

Therein lies the rub.


also RE: "the intelligence community decided to play on the same team with the media"

Well they certainly are now. The "media" (if by that you-and-I both understand to mean U.S. Corporate-Owned Mass Media) is playing 100% . Remember, the (electronic-based) "media" doesn't just mean *broadcast networks* anymore... Facebook and Twitter are included :
Facebook As The Ultimate Surveillance Machine  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/06/436244.shtml
Facebook (and-or Twitter) — Corporate Media Surveillance Trap?  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/07/436389.shtml

U.S. corporate mass media falls right in line with the overall U.S. intelligence community's domestic surveillance and foreign policy-intervention goals, in the early 21st century. They wash each other's hands.


Anyway this is 2018 that I'm living in Clyde. You there, too?

yep 22.Jul.2018 23:50

Clyde

I'm talking more about the general idea that the intelligence community is generally at odds with media in regards to confidentiality, protecting sources, etc. I don't see them playing ball together in terms of pushing an agenda. But I see where you are coming from.

Everyone expected Hillary to win. Everyone. But I don't think the current investigations are meant to (or were supposed to) reflect that win. I believe they came about due to compelling evidence of sketchy behavior involving the Trump campaign. Indictments have shown that to be the case, at least so far.

And I say "at least so far" based on something that a national security writer mentioned, almost in passing a week or two ago. I'll paraphrase it, but it basically amounted to "People on the left shouldn't get comfortable with all of the coming indictments focusing just on the Trump campaign." I'm very interested to see who else is caught up in this. I don't believe it is exclusive to the Trump campaign.

But we'll see.

" I don't believe it is exclusive to the Trump campaign. " — 23.Jul.2018 00:25

_

we already know that it isn't.

Furthermore the Trump (former) campaign associates that have been indicted, have been for technicalities or peripheralities to the campaign itself, or (for example in the case of long-time pre-Trump and old-school 1980s operative Paul Manafort) for things that had little actual operational connection to Trump or his 2016 presidential campaign whatsoever.

Podesta Group. They were hand in glove, with Manafort and other lobbyists in Ukraine. Podestas (John and Tony) are very deeply and highly connected to Washington D.C. and Democratic elites.

anyway the only thing to "expect" further out of Mueller's investigation process is a Nothingburger. (Even if it, somehow, was to be a 'juicy' catch of some-or-other Washington D.C. "swamp" elite no matter what side of the aisle they are on.... That person isn't going to serve any substantial jail time; if any at all.)

so (my advice is) don't "wait" for "who is caught up" in this because, essentially the Mueller investigation is already concluded and has 'reached its conclusion'. As discussed extensively above, the entire idea that the Trump campaign "committed illegal foreign acts which caused him to become victorious over the Clinton campaign" is Flat-Earth preposterous. Hillary was a beyond-dismal candidate that couldn't win even with Every Part of the political elite, financial and media establishment pulling for her. "Russia Russia" is nothing more than a politically-motivated waste of time and money which attempts to give political traction to the so-called Democrat 'opposition' in D.C., and gives U.S. corporate mass media plenty of air-and-sales-time to distract viewers and Social-Media-participants from actually-relevant issues.

Addendum RE: 4chan — "salacious and unverified". and FISA etc. 24.Jul.2018 03:54

_

in mentioning the 4chan meme-theory (posted ^above), I didn't intend to put up a strawman or distraction; but rather to highlight just how unreliable and unmoored from reality one of the evidential bases of the FISA spying operation, is. Little distinction here between a 4chan-, or Fusion GPS-, sourced fantasy.


here is head of the FBI, James Comey before the Senate Intelligence Committee on June 8, 2017 :
---
"The IC leadership thought it important, for a variety of reasons, to alert the incoming President to the existence of this material, even though it was salacious and unverified. Among those reasons were: (1) we knew the media was about to publicly report the material and we believed the IC should not keep knowledge of the material and its imminent release from the President-Elect; and (2) to the extent there was some effort to compromise an incoming President, we could blunt any such effort with a defensive briefing."
---

NyMag journalist Jonathan Chait, propogator of the flat-Earth "Trump: Russian Asset Since 1987" conspiracy theory  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/07/436412.shtml has asserted that as "time goes by, more and more of the claims first reported by Steele have been borne out", with the mainstream media "treat[ing] "[the dossier] as gossip" whereas the intelligence community [supposedly] "take it seriously".


and even in light of all ^ this, no corporate media outlet would publish actual contents of the 'piss dossier' itself prior to the election (BuzzFeed ended up doing so in January 2017; but of course the delay in publication comports with the post-Hillary-loss 'insurance policy' of the soon-to-be-launched Mueller special counsel investigation)...

Taken together all this reflects a lot about not only whether the dossier is "credible" but moreover whether any part of it is even factual; particularly given its role in obtaining the ^^^ FISA application  http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2018/07/436449.shtml#453320

Mueller's History of Cover-Ups 25.Jul.2018 01:13

Posted on April 8, 2018 by Kevin Ryan

Former FBI Director Robert Mueller has been in the news lately due to his inquiry into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. elections. After a 12-year stint leading the Bureau, the longest ever since J. Edgar Hoover, Mueller is now seen by many as an honest man serving the interest of the American public. However, that perception cannot be defended once one knows about Mueller's past.

What some people don't know about Mueller is that he has a long history of leading government investigations that were diversions or cover-ups. These include the investigation into the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, the investigation into the terrorist financing Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), and the FBI investigations into the crimes of September 11th, 2001. Today the public is beginning to realize that Mueller's investigation into Russian collusion with the Trump campaign is a similar diversion.